new information: Arthur Mac Donald and the MJK scene photo

[Dr. John Watson]

There are no known surviving negatives of any of the victims. Don Rumbelow found the glass plate negative of the exterior of Millers Court, which he found around 1966/67. This negative has since gone missing. Rob

Thank you, Rob, for clearing up the question of the glass negatives. I was fairly certain that no first-generation prints of the victims have been found, with the exceptions you mentioned. My experience has been that the quality of prints made from these early glass plates is as good as, and often superior to, presentday photos. In fact, prints from these plates, enlarged many times their original size, have been found to show amazing detail - such as a recognizable face in a window at a distance of several hundred feet! Do we know whether a print was ever made from the plate found by Don in 1967?

John

[Luke111]

Outstanding, Maria with Rob's assistance



Luke, the crime scene photograph of Mary Kelly appeared in a French book in 1894. Up until now it's been a mystery how they had it.

It is known Arthur MacDonald had inquired to British officials to see the Whitechapel murder files but was denied permission. (Thanks Stewart for posting up the official document) But somehow he did gain possession of the photo. Because in the letter Maria found, Macdonald offered the photo in exchange for publishing his manuscript in book form. Which is what happened. A trade off.

Roy

I see. So this was the first time the photograph was published in a book available to the public? If anyone could give me a brief history of the MJK Photographs? Like who took it, when was it "discovered", etc. That would be great!
thanks for your answers,
greetings
Luke

[mariab]

The 'chief' of the London Metropolitan Police was the Commissioner, Sir Edward Bradford, who required Home Office permission to send the official report. The authority was granted and the report sent, as noted by Robert Anderson on 7 December 1894.

Thank you SO much for explaining, Mr. Evans.

I'll try to contribute with a bit more research as soon as possible, but this week is/was crazy and I'm taking the weekend off.

[Stewart P Evans]

Chief

According to this letter, the chief of the London Metropolitan Police himself suggested that Dr. Ollive contacts Dr. Bond.
Wish I had time to research the Nantes crime in the newspapers, but right this minute I'm not even sure to whom this letter refers as “chief of the London Metropolitan Police“ and NO time to check anything, need to go back to work.

The 'chief' of the London Metropolitan Police was the Commissioner, Sir Edward Bradford, who required Home Office permission to send the official report. The authority was granted and the report sent, as noted by Robert Anderson on 7 December 1894.

[mariab]

According to this letter, the chief of the London Metropolitan Police himself suggested that Dr. Ollive contacts Dr. Bond.
Wish I had time to research the Nantes crime in the newspapers, but right this minute I'm not even sure to whom this letter refers as “chief of the London Metropolitan Police“ and NO time to check anything, need to go back to work.

[Stewart P Evans]

Ollive's Letter

Here's the letter of request sent by Dr. Ollive.

[mariab]

Interesting with Nantes obtaining medical reports in 1894.
I haven't seen any evidence of Lacassagne asking the HO for medical reports from the JTR case when Lacassagne was working on the Vacher or the Vidal case. Could this mean that he already had medical reports?

(I've located a letter from the Sorbonne to Lacassagne with a request for Vacher's handwriting, though.)

[Stewart P Evans]

Dr. Gustave Ollive

In November 1894 Dr. Gustave Ollive, professor at the School of Medicine at Nantes, applied to the Secretary of State for a copy of Bond's report on the Whitechapel murders.

Ollive had been instructed by the Juge d'Instruction at Nantes to make enquiries in a similar case and thus made his request. A copy of Bond's report was forwarded to Ollive at Nantes.

[mariab]

Mac Donald: pic but NO med reports

That quote was paraphrasing Dr. Brown's testimony as reported in the Times, Oct. 5, 1888, which did use these technical terms.

Thank you SO much, Hunter, for doing my homework for me for the umpteenth time! (My only excuse being that I'm currently entertaining guests and am pretty beat after a few days of touring through Berlin and a marathon of shopping, but from now on we'll be doing sports, which is much more my thing.)

I need to check Dr. Bond's reports to see if there are any quotes in Mac Donald, but so far it looks like Mac Donald got the MJK pic but no medical reports. What did he do, pinch it? ;-)

[Hunter]

Pertaining to Eddowes, I'm a bit surprised that a quote as below (used in Mac Donald) would have been included in a press report:
The sternocleidomastoid muscle was divided mastoid and the cricoid cartilage was severed at its middle portion below the vocal cords. The large vessels on the left side of the neck were cut to the bone, because the knife had left a mark on the vertebral cartilage.
Unless this is a quote from Dr. Brown's inquest testimony for Eddowes, missing from what's posted on casebook from the Eddowes inquest. (I'll check all this soon, but not sure when.)

Hi, Maria.

That quote was paraphrasing Dr. Brown's testimony as reported in the Times, Oct. 5, 1888, which did use these technical terms.

[Errata]

Pertaining to Eddowes, I'm a bit surprised that a quote as below (used in Mac Donald) would have been included in a press report:
The sternocleidomastoid muscle was divided mastoid and the cricoid cartilage was severed at its middle portion below the vocal cords. The large vessels on the left side of the neck were cut to the bone, because the knife had left a mark on the vertebral cartilage.
Unless this is a quote from Dr. Brown's inquest testimony for Eddowes, missing from what's posted on casebook from the Eddowes inquest. (I'll check all this soon, but not sure when.)

Isn't that a bit technical for an inquest with a civilian jury? I thought they were pretty careful to use layman's terms for the anatomy stuff.

It reads like notes... except people tend to use present tense in notes. Or a lecture... did Dr. Bond ever lecture on the case? Give an M&M or something?

[mariab]

To Rob Clack:
Thank you so much for discussing the state and the possible provenance of the photos, Rob. Might I email you with a question or two? (If you're willing to talk pre-publication, and as soon as I catch a couple hours of sleep, I'm about to die here...)

[mariab]

Hi Maria.
None of MacDonald’s reports on the Whitechapel victims seems to come from any official source, certainly not from Dr. Bond. MacDonald’s information seems to come from newspaper reports (some of the information about the Kelly murder, for example, is wrong but did appear in the newspapers and Dr. Brown’s “report” comes from his inquest testimony which was widely reported) and I can confirm that that seems to be standard with the other cases he writes about.
Wolf.

Hi Mr. Vanderlinden. Thank you so much for reporting about Mac Donald including wrong information in the MJK medical report having its provenance apparently in the press reports. Don't have time right now to check any of this extensively, but hopefully at some point soon.
Pertaining to Eddowes, I'm a bit surprised that a quote as below (used in Mac Donald) would have been included in a press report:
The sternocleidomastoid muscle was divided mastoid and the cricoid cartilage was severed at its middle portion below the vocal cords. The large vessels on the left side of the neck were cut to the bone, because the knife had left a mark on the vertebral cartilage.
Unless this is a quote from Dr. Brown's inquest testimony for Eddowes, missing from what's posted on casebook from the Eddowes inquest. (I'll check all this soon, but not sure when.)

[Phil Carter]

Hello Rob,

Many thanks for the reply. Most appreciated.

kindly

Phil

[Rob Clack]

Hi Phil,

That was what was on the back of the copies me and Neil saw when we had a look at them. The originals apparently were in pretty poor condition so copies were made and the originals thrown away.

Rob