Mary Kelly Gives Description of JTR?

[Howard Brown]

The article in the NY World appeared the day after George Hutchinson visited the local fuzz on the 12th.....
What it should have said was, "Man provides description of murderer of Mary Kelly". The appearance of the article coincides with Hutchinson's visit the previous day, thats all.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Archaic, Mike, Errata,

Thanks for that. A very interesting angle indeed. I am inclined to agree with you about the newspaper.
Would you please be kind enough to put the whole of the article from which this apparent comment from Mary Kelly comes from if you have access to it?
Perhaps Mike has it?

Here's what I reckon. I think it could be a garbled mix up or even a reporter talking to a.n.other after the Kelly murder, and getting straight street gossip back. More outwardly, and more unlikely, that as Eddowes gave her name as Mary Ann Kelly, and was known to have supposedly spoken of "Jack" it is a reference to that. Without seeing the entire article it is impossible to judge in any way though.

Hello How,

Many thanks for this. It starts to make sense now.

Hello Jon,

Regarding the "Mary Ann Kelley fined 2/6", could this be a reference to another known ripper victim (Eddowes) who had given this name when arrested on the evening of her murder? She gave that name once.. why not once before on September 19th? Without any other details, address etc, it is hard to see any connection to "Miller's Court Mary". I am hoping someone will kindly provide the proof of this "Kelley" being prosecuted on the 19th September 1888, as I can still find no record of it in the newspapers.

Just a thought that is connected. Eddowes was apparently drunk and disorderly when picked up on the evening of her murder. Why wasn't she charged? She was drunk enough to be wheeled away to the police station...
Just a thought.


best wishes

Phil

[mklhawley]

Here it is Phil.

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030193/1888-11-13/ed-2/seq-3/;words=Kelly+Mary

[Phil Carter]

Hello Mike,

Many thanks sir. Very kind of you.

best wishes

Phil

[Jonnieola]

Great link. Very interesting indeed. Thanks from me also.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Jon,

It seems we are getting to the source of the Thames Magistrates' Court entry. In Philip Sugden's "The Complete Jack the Ripper" revised paperback, 2002, published by Robinson, on page 308 it states the following:-

" She was probably the "Mary Jane Kelley", aged twenty-two, who was fined 2s 6d at Thames Magistrates' Court on September 19th1888 for being drunk and disorderly."

The appendix reference given on page 514 states the following:-

Thames Magistrates' Court register, GLRO, PS/TH/A1/11

It is also noted that Sugden says "probably" where as the A-Z says "may be".

There is no reference in Sugden's book to any address given. Has anyone a copy of this entry by chance that they would be so kind as to provide? Many thanks.

best wishes

Phil

[ChrisGeorge]

Greetings all,
I found a one-line news summary in The Evening World (New York, N.Y.), November 13, 1888, stating:

Mary Kelly gives a description of the supposed Whitechapel murderer to the London police.

Has anyone seen this report before? Did The Evening World later recant this statement?

Sincerely,

Mike

Could someone post the actual article or give us a URL to see the article in The Evening World (New York, N.Y.), November 13, 1888? Thanks in advance.

Don't forget that "Kelly" and "Mary Jane Kelly" were very common names so the description might not have been given by the murdered woman. Additionally, remember that Eddowes sometimes went by the name of Kelly, so there may be confusion about which victim was meant.

Chris

[Phil Carter]

Here it is Phil.

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...rds=Kelly+Mary

Hello Chris,

Mike has already done this.

best wishes

Phil

[ChrisGeorge]

Thank you, Phil and Mike.

Cheers

Chris

[Wickerman]

Opinion of Chief O'Mara of Pittsburgh.

"The fact that the bodies are yet warm when discovered leads O'Mara to believe that London's big police force could have formed a network around the district and prevented the escape of a single person. Every house ought to have been searched and every person examined, in view of such crimes.........A policeman ought to know every person living on his beat, and ought to know when a stranger comes on it"

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn83030193/1888-11-13/ed-2/seq-1/

Chief O'Mara appears to have no concept of what Whitechapel was and the extent of its overpopulation.

[celee]

Hi,

Did not Kathy Eddowes claim to know who Jack the Ripper was and I think she used the alias Mary Kelly? Could it be a case of mistaken identity?

Your friend,
Brad

[Hatchett]

,
Hello Celee,

There was certainly a report that Kate Eddowes said that she knew who Jack the Ripper was, there is doubt about the authenticity of that statement these days.

She did indeed call herself Mary Kelly sometimes and did in fact call herself that on the night of her murder.

To figure her murder as mistaken identity necessitates a belief that the killer sas looking for Mary Jane Kelly, and indeed have a positive plan rather than a random killer.

I dont persdonally think the facts add upto the that.

But it is an intriguing angle all the same.

Best wishes.

Hatchett.

[Wickerman]

,
She did indeed call herself Mary Kelly sometimes and did in fact call herself that on the night of her murder.

To figure her murder as mistaken identity necessitates a belief that the killer sas looking for Mary Jane Kelly, and indeed have a positive plan rather than a random killer.

I think you could make a general statement that everybody had an opinion on who Jack the Ripper was at some point or other.
As for the killer looking for MJK, he only had 30 mins to stumble across Eddowes after she was released from Bishopsgate at 1:00am, thats hardly likely.
And, tradition has it that Eddowes did not give her name when she was locked up for the night, so how would the prospective stalker have known a Mary Kelly was locked up in that station that night?, even the police didn't have the name Mary Kelly on their books.

Food for conspiracy theorists but not easily explained as to how her killer would have known of her whereabouts that night.

[Hatchett]

Hi Wickerman,

You are quite right of course. But it surely it is is healthy for Celee to explore the ideas that came across our minds a long time ago at the start of our own researches?

Best wishes.

[celee]

Hi,

I do not think that the killer was targeting Kelly. I am just trying to explain the newspaper article. It does make for a good story tho

Your friend,
Brad