Mary Kelly Gives Description of JTR?

[Jason]

Hello Errata,

Not meaning to sound "out there" here, but that occured to me too. Could this be an early source that sheds light on the question of whether the woman killed in Miller's Court was "Mary Jane Kelly" or not?

Is this another example of the American newspapers having pieces of information and printing them that the British papers didn't? I refer here of course to the numerous examples of Tumblety, which we know all about.

best wishes

Phil

I happened to be in Norway when Diana died, in 1997. The paper i read there spoke of cocaine being found on the back seat of her car, whereas i dont recall this ever being mentioned in the english press. Perhaps this american press report is an early example of governements being able to gag their own press whilst all others have the freedom to write everything and anything they deem relevant "news".

[Chava]

Well I just did a quick BMD search on Mary Jane Kelly and This is the link. There are tons of them. So I'm not sure why none of them appear on the censuses...

[Wickerman]

Well i ve flagged this up before, Mary Kelly born Castletown Limerick 1864 parents John Kelly and Anne McCarthy brother John 1866, brother Peter 1868.

Well thankyou for taking the trouble to repeat your 'flag'. I had mentioned that Kelly's mother's maiden name was McCarthy several weeks ago but then I couldn't locate where it had been discovered.

All the best, Jon S.

[miss marple]

Well i ve flagged this up before, Mary Kelly born Castletown Limerick 1864 parents John Kelly and Anne McCarthy brother John 1866, brother Peter 1868.

Where did Jane come from, who said that was her middle name? did'nt Barnett say her middle name was Jeanette, maybe it was originally Jean or Josephine, or maybe it was invented,
Miss Marple

[Wickerman]

Well there are 18 Mary Jane Kelly's born in England between 1850 and 1870.that are registered. None in London
A couple on the census records in 1881 up north.
One born in Dublin 1864
Not many, compared to the number of plain Mary's or Mary Ann's
A lot of people don't mention their middle names on census records.

Miss Marple
It would be good if drunk Mary was our girl, 22?

Howsabout Limerick, Ireland?

Jon S.

[miss marple]

Lot

Well there are 18 Mary Jane Kelly's born in England between 1850 and 1870.that are registered. None in London
A couple on the census records in 1881 up north.
One born in Dublin 1864
Not many, compared to the number of plain Mary's or Mary Ann's
A lot of people don't mention their middle names on census records.

Miss Marple
It would be good if drunk Mary was our girl, 22?

[Prosector]

Could someone post the actual article or give us a URL to see the article in The Evening World (New York, N.Y.), November 13, 1888? Thanks in advance.

Don't forget that "Kelly" and "Mary Jane Kelly" were very common names so the description might not have been given by the murdered woman. Additionally, remember that Eddowes sometimes went by the name of Kelly, so there may be confusion about which victim was meant.

Chris

Actually not as common as you might think. There is not a single Mary Jane Kelly or Mary J Kelly or any variants thereof listed in the whole of the Censuses for England and Wales between the years 1861 and 1891. Surprising?

[Tecs]

Just a thought that is connected. Eddowes was apparently drunk and disorderly when picked up on the evening of her murder. Why wasn't she charged? She was drunk enough to be wheeled away to the police station...
Just a thought.


best wishes

Phil

Hi Phil,

Didn't the police have a general policy of chucking drunks in the cells until they had dried out and not actually doing anything more? I'm not sure if the City had a different policy than the Met or if it depended on whichever duty sergeant was in charge that night?

Maybe someone else does?

Regards,

[Hatchett]

Hello Brad,

A very good story.

Best wishes.

[celee]

Hi,

I do not think that the killer was targeting Kelly. I am just trying to explain the newspaper article. It does make for a good story tho

Your friend,
Brad

[Hatchett]

Hi Wickerman,

You are quite right of course. But it surely it is is healthy for Celee to explore the ideas that came across our minds a long time ago at the start of our own researches?

Best wishes.

[Wickerman]

,
She did indeed call herself Mary Kelly sometimes and did in fact call herself that on the night of her murder.

To figure her murder as mistaken identity necessitates a belief that the killer sas looking for Mary Jane Kelly, and indeed have a positive plan rather than a random killer.

I think you could make a general statement that everybody had an opinion on who Jack the Ripper was at some point or other.
As for the killer looking for MJK, he only had 30 mins to stumble across Eddowes after she was released from Bishopsgate at 1:00am, thats hardly likely.
And, tradition has it that Eddowes did not give her name when she was locked up for the night, so how would the prospective stalker have known a Mary Kelly was locked up in that station that night?, even the police didn't have the name Mary Kelly on their books.

Food for conspiracy theorists but not easily explained as to how her killer would have known of her whereabouts that night.

[Hatchett]

,
Hello Celee,

There was certainly a report that Kate Eddowes said that she knew who Jack the Ripper was, there is doubt about the authenticity of that statement these days.

She did indeed call herself Mary Kelly sometimes and did in fact call herself that on the night of her murder.

To figure her murder as mistaken identity necessitates a belief that the killer sas looking for Mary Jane Kelly, and indeed have a positive plan rather than a random killer.

I dont persdonally think the facts add upto the that.

But it is an intriguing angle all the same.

Best wishes.

Hatchett.

[celee]

Hi,

Did not Kathy Eddowes claim to know who Jack the Ripper was and I think she used the alias Mary Kelly? Could it be a case of mistaken identity?

Your friend,
Brad

[Wickerman]

Opinion of Chief O'Mara of Pittsburgh.

"The fact that the bodies are yet warm when discovered leads O'Mara to believe that London's big police force could have formed a network around the district and prevented the escape of a single person. Every house ought to have been searched and every person examined, in view of such crimes.........A policeman ought to know every person living on his beat, and ought to know when a stranger comes on it"
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lc...13/ed-2/seq-1/

Chief O'Mara appears to have no concept of what Whitechapel was and the extent of its overpopulation.