The Broken Window

[Rubyretro]

I think that you are fabulously logical Sally -and I really look forward to reading all your future Posts !

(by which I mean to say "Welcome" too -but I still think of myself as 'green', so I didn't do so before).

[Chava]

Hi Sally,

I thought for a long time that McCarthy could have been MJK's killer because he obviously claimed he did not have a key otherwise he would not have broken the door down. Which, since he was the landlord, I still find hard to believe. He's still not entirely off the hook for me, although these days I incline more to the Blotchy-Faced gent seen in MJK's company that night. Now, however, I am thinking about the possibility of a completely random killer. This is all courtesy of the blood-on-the-glass Bowyer report that I found in the files. Which could, of course either by a journo's lie or a Bowyer lie or a complete misunderstanding!

All that having been said, McCarthy could simply have been in shock. He had seen the body before the police did and it was a horrible sight. In which case, the cops said 'break it down' and he obediently went and got an axe. I doubt too many people were thinking coherently at that moment.

[packers stem]

Sally,

I believe that McCarthy wouldn't have wanted to admit knowing about the broken window (had he known) as it had been broken for maybe 10 days and should have been fixed. He might have come into question over it and could have been in trouble for negligence if not more.

Mike

Hi Mike
Doubt whether there would have been much legal protection for tennants in those days and little chance of McCarthy being prosecuted.

[DrHopper]

Just read this thread in its entirety for the first time.

Wow. I honestly don’t know what the fuss is about. Seriously, there is no mystery here.

Firstly – clearly, and without any doubt, it is the two panes nearest the passage that were broken – upper and lower. This is visible from the photograph, and from the witness testimony. I think any argument presented to the contrary is to make a mountain out of a molehill, and look for zebras upon hearing hooves.

Secondly – broken glass is not that sharp. Seriously. You can run your finger over a scalpel blade if you do it against the edge (and softly obviously) – cheap and crappily made victorian glass is no match for surgical steel. Talk of amputation and serious injury are MASSIVELY overstating the problem. And that is precisely what MJK and others would be doing – arm in, brushing against the edge of the glass, not stopping and running it up and down in a sawing movement. It would be foolish, but doable, even in bare skin, but that surely is the point; no one, in the depths of a London winter would have bare arms, leaving aside the Victorian mores re: bare arms. So I will state, as someone with experience, that there is absolutely no danger presented by a broken window, particularly in a winter coat. If there was blood on that glass (and I personally think not), then it was Kelly’s (although it may have been transferred via a policeman who moved from the body to check the window pane).

Thirdly – to judge from the brick distances from corner to door frame (and all that which was presented above) the latch would be no more than 18 inches away from the broken window pane – doable even for a person of small stature.

And as has been noted above, the killer would simply have left the room pulling the door behind him, and *click* the door is locked.

As for who that was, well… we all have our suspects.

[The Good Michael]

Hi Mike
Doubt whether there would have been much legal protection for tennants in those days and little chance of McCarthy being prosecuted.

Unimportant. Do you think McCarthy would have said, "Let's just reach in through the broken window that I've known about and unlock the door rather than break it down." I think not.

Mike

[Chava]

Wow. I honestly don’t know what the fuss is about. Seriously, there is no mystery here.

Oh gosh, OK. That solves that then. Anyone for Zodiac?

[harry]

We do not know for sure that the latch/catch was of the spring kind,so Mike's suggestion of also having to reach through the window to set it,cannot be discarded out of hand.I cannot see McCarthy or Kelly if one of them had to install a replacement for the loss of the key,going for anything but the cheaper brand of catch/latch,which did not contain a spring.That the catch/latch still had to be set is evidenced by the door having to be forced.
Silly thread or not,the means of entry was and is a vital element in the Ripper crimes.That entry by the door seems the most feasible means of access to the room,it has to be shown how it was manipulated since there was no key.

[belinda]

The killer could still have followed her and seen how she got into the room whether it was through the window or not.
However she got in he may have been able to get in the same way

[Bob Hinton]

Firstly – clearly, and without any doubt, it is the two panes nearest the passage that were broken – upper and lower. This is visible from the photograph, and from the witness testimony.
.

What witness testimony is that? The only testimony given by a witness is that given by Bowyer at the inquest and he clearly indicates a different window pane?

I do wish people would stop dragging up this bit about opening the door by reaching through the window as being easy. Abberline at the inquest never said that. He said he had been told about opening the door by reaching through the window by Barnett. As for the ease of this operation nothing is claimed.

The only time it being easy is mentioned is in the newspaper, now you have to decide which record you adhere to, that written by a reporter or the official record.

As for blood on the window glass I am quite sure that is fantasy, made up by the reporter to give added impact to the story. Why would there be blood on the window pane?

[Bob Hinton]

Broken Glass

My final post on this subject, if reaching through the broken window to slip the bolt was so easy then why didn't anybody do it?

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
I would suggest that its a safe bet, that single women of the court, ie Prater, and in November anyway Mjk, would take every precaution at least at night to, feel secure in their room.
Prater barrackaded her door, and I would suggest that Mary would have used her table for that purpose at night.
That being the case if her killer entered via the window , by using the window trick, he would have still had to be very carefully how he opened the door without banging on the table.
For that reason I would suggest that Kelly was not in bed asleep when attacked, and infact the door to the room was on the latch when her killer entered.
The fact that she was down to her chemise, suggests that Astracan was not her killer, the cries of 'Oh Murder' came some 90 minutes after he entered the room, and I very much doubt the Rippers murderous control would have spanned that distance.
Taking the inquest evidence of Praters, the report from Kit Watkins, the statement of Maxwell, the positioning of the bedroll, it would seem likely to me that her killer, was the last male seen with her ie Market porter, and he entered the door of her room upon invitation, when poor Mary Kelly had her guard down, after all Jack did not strike in daylight.......did he?
As for the blood on the glass, it was done by the killer when pulling the pilot coat back over the window to hide the view, as kelly had already pulled it aside as it was morning.
Regards Richard.

[Stephen Thomas]

We do not know for sure that the latch/catch was of the spring kind

Hi Harry

Yes we do, because otherwise it would have needed a key from the inside.

[jason_c]

Where is it suggested there was blood on the glass?

[harry]

Stephen,
There were a number of different makes of Mortice locks,some incorporating a spring mechanism,and some a lever mechanism,and some both.Some also included deadbolts,some catches.Some would be operated by the same key from both sides of the door.Some simple lever type,were not self locking,they required a key,both to open and close
The type of lock on Kelly's door is not stipulated,and Barnett does not mention the method used to secure the door from the outside.Why I say Mortice lock,is because there is no photo of the door that shows another type.The mortice would be cut into the edge of the door,and obscured when shut.All that would show is the key hole.
While I accept that there might have been a spring mechanism to self shut,I have to accept Mikes point that it might also have been neccessary to trip the catch through the window on leaving.I look at all options.

[Garry Wroe]

As ever, Harry, wonderful post. There's nothing like the knowledge borne of direct experience.

Best wishes.

Garry Wroe.