The Broken Window

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
My eyes clearly see, glass missing from both the top right half, and bottom right half, of the panes nearest the door.
I can see no issue with this, there are they, and whats more, fits in with Bowyers initial statement which has he, putting his hand threw the broken window , pulling aside the pilot coat, and seeing first a pile of flesh on the table, which of course would be directly in front.
The location of the broken window is very easy to spot,
Regards Richard.

[jason_c]

I do not think that reaching through the broken pane would have worried a person if that person had an overcoat and presumably an undercoat as safeguard.Normal dress for that time of year.
I see no reason for Barnett to lie about something that was at hand for anyone to try.

Im in agreement. Abberline viewed the broken window, the door, and dimensions of the room. If it didnt raise Abberline's suspiscions it shouldnt raise ours either.

[Chava]

It's not a question of lying. The broken window access is simply something that over the years may have been made more of than necessary. Barnett--thank you whoever posted the Abberline statement--obviously did use it. But there doesn't seem to be any evidence that MJK used it. If she didn't, then it's possible that her killer was in the room while she was out casing the place to discover how to get in later. If she didn't use it then it's possible that she was lax about locking it when she was inside--although I would be surprised about this given Prater's highly-developed instinct for personal security.

[Rob Clack]

I don't believe Bowyer was clear enough at the Inquest, he certainly didn't specify clearly enough which window pane or panes were broken.
When he said:
“I went round the corner and there was a broken window in the furthest window”

I believe what he was saying, was that the window furthest from left was broken, so the one to the right was broken (if he was looking at it).

And when he said:
“I refer to the plans and I mean the farthest pane of the first window, the small one”

I think going by what he already said, he means one of the right hand panes but doesn't specify top or bottom.

But anyway the photograph Stewart posted was clear enough. The top right and bottom right are clearly broken and both the top left and bottom left are intact.

Rob

[Bob Hinton]

Rob
I'm sorry but this does not make sense. Are you saying that when he looked at the plan and said:

“I refer to the plans and I mean the farthest pane of the first window, the small one”

What he actually meant was:

"I refer to the plans and I mean the NEAREST pane of the first window, the small one"

This is ridiculous. If he looked at the plan and indicated the bottom left window was broken and it wasn’t then he would have been pulled up just as he was when he got his tongue twisted with his first statement. I don’t understand the problem people are having with this. His statement is crystal clear. You cannot get any clearer than “the farthest pane of the first window, the small one”.

[Rob Clack]

Hi Bob,

I mean since Bowyer initially described the window itself as the furthest one, which would make it on his right as he is looking at the two windows. He described the broken pane as the furthest one (on the right) in that window.
In my opinion.

Rob

[richardnunweek]

Hello Bob,
I am utterly confused [ whats new?] the window that was broken was the one nearest the door, bottom right, and top right, regardless of what Bowyer did,or did not mean.
This has never been a issue until now, the pilot coat hung over the window with the missing glass, and it was through this window that Bowyer observed the body, at first glance seeing the flesh on the bedside table , which would have been immediately in eyeshot.
Are you disputing the said window, had two breaks in it, or are you purely stating that Bowyer got his facts wrong, or are you saying that the picture we have always assumed was room 13, Millers court,.? is not the actual dwelling Mary Kellys body lay?
Regards Richard.

[packers stem]

Hi Rob and Richard
There is no clearly visible break in any pane other than the top right.This is starting to remind me of 'most haunted' where some people stare at webcam images all night and then text in to say what they've seen,where in reality if you stare at something long enough the eye can decieve you.I've looked at this image on two computers at every possible angle and there is no clear break on the panes other than top right which is clear and obvious with every line and angle.If the bottom right was broken we would surely see some sort of jagged edges.
Could it be that Philips got it wrong and that one of the panes in the furthest window was broken and i do mean furthest to be furthest not nearest cos furthest could never mean nearest no matter what type of way you wish to spin it.

[Robert]

Hi Chava

My bet is that it was Mr A who closed the door. Kelly had been drinking. It was cold. Her boots were in front of the fire so it would have been bare feet on a filthy floor if she got up. She probably just shut her eyes to get a bit of kip.

[Rob Clack]

Hi Rob and Richard
There is no clearly visible break in any pane other than the top right.This is starting to remind me of 'most haunted' where some people stare at webcam images all night and then text in to say what they've seen,where in reality if you stare at something long enough the eye can decieve you.I've looked at this image on two computers at every possible angle and there is no clear break on the panes other than top right which is clear and obvious with every line and angle.If the bottom right was broken we would surely see some sort of jagged edges.
Could it be that Philips got it wrong and that one of the panes in the furthest window was broken and i do mean furthest to be furthest not nearest cos furthest could never mean nearest no matter what type of way you wish to spin it.

Well I can see clear breaks in the bottom right, but if you can't see one in the bottom left but you can in the top right, it probably means there isn't one in the bottom left.

Rob

[Garry Wroe]

Having applied various filters to the photograph I came up with these two images. I don't know if they're of any use, but here goes:-





Best of luck!

Garry Wroe.

[Raoul's Obsession]

Could it be that Philips got it wrong and that one of the panes in the furthest window was broken and i do mean furthest to be furthest not nearest cos furthest could never mean nearest no matter what type of way you wish to spin it.

I think you've hit the nail on the head - furthest means nearest precicely because of how you spin it. We in 21C land are looking at a photo of the place and we judge nearest and furthest based on the position of the camera. They, at the inquest were looking at a plan (and a plan made looking from a certain direction). Do we know in which direction this was? If not, we can only go on the pictures we have
... and they seem conclusive to me.

[Veritas]

Yes as soon as I saw the photo I realized that the door was too far away for her to beable ot rach thorugh the broken glass to get at. Another Ripper legend smashed to bits!

[The Grave Maurice]

Try another filter, Garry. Maybe you can get all four panes to appear broken.

[Jane Coram]

This is the clearest I can get it. I used the one that Stewart kindly posted up on this thread -- http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=612

Hugs

Janie

xxxxx