The Broken Window

[Sally]

String

Hi All

I read the posts about the string with interest. It sounds good, doesn't it - yes of course! It seems much easier to have a piece of string attached to the lock: that way nobody has to put their arm through the window and risk cutting themselves on the broken glass.

But leaving aside the obvious point that it was not mentioned at the time - you would want to know why - I can't see it working. It would take some force to pull a piece of string to open the lock, even if the lock was of a type that made that possible.

If you were in that posiiton, trying to pull the lock open with a piece of string through the broken window; I bet it would be fiddly, to say the least. If the murderer had gained entrance that way, for the sake of argument, he (or she) would have been messing about for quite a while, I should think, running the risk of being caught.

I don't find that very plausible really. The other thing is, if you were standing there, fiddling about with the string, there's a good chance you'd end up catching it on the broken glass, which would probably sever it anyway.

It looks good on paper, but when you deconstruct it, it's a bit impractical I think.

[Bob Hinton]

The Broken Window

Me again! Been checking my JTR Sourcebook and according to the Daily Telegraph of 10/11/1888, the window was broken one week before the murder during the quarrel which caused Barnett to move out. I seem to remember that the key had been missing for some time before that, so presumably if they were opening the door through the window before it was broken they left it ajar.

Same article says that it was a spring lock which would lock when the door was closed if that is any help to the lock experts.

I earnestly suggest you read the boards before posting. Yes we know it was a spring lock that's why I went to great lengths to cover the subject in my book published in 1998.

MJK wouldn't leave the door ajar - open- but simply leave it on the latch, closed but not locked.

[Bob Hinton]

The Broken Window

Sorry I must have missed something - how do we know Barnett didn´t know about the supposed string? Not mentioning something doesn´t always mean that a person doesn´t know about it. Also I should think that the police had enough to think about when they saw the body and may well have thought that a piece of string was of no importance. After all, there wasn´t the careful examination of a crime scene as there is today.

I see so Barnett in answering the police about how he entered the room mentions reaching in through the broken window, but forgets to mention that it wasn't really necessary as they had a bit of string, and the police weren't really interested in methods of entry they just thought they talk to Barnett about it to pass the time.

And of course once the police enter the room no-one says "Hey whats that bit of string doing tied to the lock, someone could use that to enter the room?"

Of course the police carefully examined the crime scene, why on earth would you think they didn't?

[Stephen Thomas]

When is a door not a door?

When it's a jar.

[harry]

Curious 4,
Like you I believe after the door was opened,all attention would have been focussed on the body.Barnetts explanation of reaching through the window would have been accepted,and little attention paid to the mechanics involved.
Of course it would not have been neccessary to leave the door ajar,in the time between losing the key,and the window being broken.The lower window piece could have been raised and lowered,or a wedge placed between the door edge and the jamb.Barnett never did say they had to reach through the broken pane.
One small bit of information seems to have been overlooked.And that is that Prater states the court to have been in complete darkness at 1.30AM.Would it have been otherwise at any time that night?

[curious4]

broken window 5

Me again! Been checking my JTR Sourcebook and according to the Daily Telegraph of 10/11/1888, the window was broken one week before the murder during the quarrel which caused Barnett to move out. I seem to remember that the key had been missing for some time before that, so presumably if they were opening the door through the window before it was broken they left it ajar.

Same article says that it was a spring lock which would lock when the door was closed if that is any help to the lock experts.

"Time and trouble will tame a headstrong young woman, but a headstrong old woman is uncontrollable by any earthly force" Dorothy Sayers

[curious4]

Broken window 4

Sorry I must have missed something - how do we know Barnett didn´t know about the supposed string? Not mentioning something doesn´t always mean that a person doesn´t know about it. Also I should think that the police had enough to think about when they saw the body and may well have thought that a piece of string was of no importance. After all, there wasn´t the careful examination of a crime scene as there is today.

[Bob Hinton]

Hi ,
I find it amazing that nobody else has joined in the piece of string report, do we simply draw a conclusion, that Dan Farson was telling a porkie, rather like the spitting report'. which has been suggested, invented by the said gentleman.
Are we suggesting that no interview with Mrs Coxs neice ever took place?
Are we suggesting that such gems as .
The piece of string .
The whole account by the neice is pure bunkum?
Made up by a man under the influence of alcohol.
With the string we have a very straightforeward way of opening the door to room 13, without reaching through the window... have we not?
Regards Richard.

Richard,

You have the unfortunate habit of assuming everyone tells the absolute gospel truth or are liars. Most of the time the actual truth is somewhere in between. People often say what they think the listener wants to hear, if telling the tale of finding a body they might well add a bit of garnish by saying the window had bloodstains on it. Reporters often "sex" things up a bit (ask Blair) if they think it will read better.

Why don't you accept that people being interviewed about what was the most important event in their lives might just gild the lily a bit?

MJK might very well have used a bit of string to open the door, but you've got to ask yourself why Barnett, who actually lived there didn't know about it.

At the same time you have to ask why none of the police officers who were obviously concerned about methods of entry didn't mention it either.

[harry]

I did mention,perhaps the last time the lock was discussed,that the distance reaching through could be shortened by the use of string.This might be suitable if the door was secured on the inside by a simple latch.In the down position,a latch would resist all but the stoutish pressure,and such a latch could be self locking.

[richardnunweek]

Hi ,
I find it amazing that nobody else has joined in the piece of string report, do we simply draw a conclusion, that Dan Farson was telling a porkie, rather like the spitting report'. which has been suggested, invented by the said gentleman.
Are we suggesting that no interview with Mrs Coxs neice ever took place?
Are we suggesting that such gems as .
The piece of string .
The whole account by the neice is pure bunkum?
Made up by a man under the influence of alcohol.
With the string we have a very straightforeward way of opening the door to room 13, without reaching through the window... have we not?
Regards Richard.

[curious4]

broken window 3

Thanks Richard! I do think quite a lot of the "gossip" can contain facts - at the time there were people alive who could remember what happened quite clearly. Not sure about Mrs S. though - although I should think she would have been hanging round the door very closely when the police broke the door down!

[richardnunweek]

Hi Curious,
Thanks for bringing that to our attention again, Mrs Coxs neice also described Mary Kelly as gin swigging, fond of sailors type, liked to sing etc.
Actually, quite a bit of the 'albeit' hearsay has a ring of truth about it, and the 'string trick' makes a lot of sense.
I have been frowned upon many times over the years for taking alleged gossip to seriously, but the string is a fascinating point.
I am not certain if Mrs Storeys account of finding the body first, has any truth in it, however there is a report which has residents reporting to McCarthy that they were concerned Marys blinds were down , and they could get no answer from her room.
Regards Richard.

[curious4]

broken window 2

Sorry, last should read "no need to knock" not "no need to lock" - all over the place today!

[curious4]

broken window

Just been reading Daniel Farson´s book. He claims to have interviewed Mrs Cox´s niece. Quote:"Now next morning a Mrs Storey who was always in and out of Mary´s room to have a pinch of snuff and a chat, was the first person to find the terrible body. Mary had a string on the door so anybody visiting had no need to lock." Inferring that anyone who wanted to come in just had to reach through and pull the string - wouldn´t have to put the whole arm through.

Think that the bit about Mrs Storey being the first to find the body can be taken with a pinch of salt, but the "string on the door" does have a ring of truth to it.

[Stephen Thomas]

. But could someone tell me what is the shaft of light? Is it the light from where the door opens on its hinges, or light from the door being slightly open at the further side from the hinges?

Hi Robert

The shaft of light is coming from between two screens set up by the police/and or the photographer to enable the photos to be taken and/or deprive prying eyes via the right hand window from the outside and errrrrr duh from the left window from the inside.

But ho, hum, whatever.