The Broken Window

[packers stem]

I can see a small circular difference in the shading in the bottom right corner of the pane.Is this what you all can see?The size of what i'm seeing though in no way would enable an arm to reach through.
Is it possible for anyone to highlight the break or enhance this image?
Maybe it is me cos i struggle with the F of FM in the room as well!

[Phil Carter]

Hello Stewart,

Thanks for providing the photo.. nice to know I don't need a trip to specsavers either.

best wishes

Phil

[Stewart P Evans]

Both

Hi all
Simon and stewart ,you both state that the lower right pane is broken.
Philips just mentions the 'window nearest the court' which is all 4 panes.The window furthest from the court is not in the photo.So it could be either of the two lower panes broken could it not.
Anyhow ,for the life of me i cannot see a break in either of the two lower panes no matter what angle i look at the scan from,oh for HD.
I can see every line and angle in the upper one.If you two can see it then i'd better get to specsavers

The very same debate about these broken window panes took place on these threads about ten years ago. Both right side panes (top and bottom, nearest to the passage) were broken.

[Chava]

There is a break but it's really really hard to see.

However that lower pane got broken, I can see it's possible to reach through and open the door. But I will bet that MJK didn't do that. It's not like she had a lot to take. And she had her dear friend Maria Hervey in and out, possibly when she wasn't around, so leaving the door unlocked would have worked for her as well.

[packers stem]

Hi all
Simon and stewart ,you both state that the lower right pane is broken.
Philips just mentions the 'window nearest the court' which is all 4 panes.The window furthest from the court is not in the photo.So it could be either of the two lower panes broken could it not.
Anyhow ,for the life of me i cannot see a break in either of the two lower panes no matter what angle i look at the scan from,oh for HD.
I can see every line and angle in the upper one.If you two can see it then i'd better get to specsavers

[Robert]

Maybe the rags used to plug one of the holes served a double purpose - draught exclusion and as a safety wrapping for the hand in case she ever did get locked out.

[Stephen Thomas]

Hi Simon

Blimey, mate, you're quick off the mark and no mistake.

I was just pointing out that human beings don't have arms like orang-utangs.

[Stewart P Evans]

Broken Window Panes

I covered this quite comprehensively in my book. The broken window was the upper right pane.
Years ago I constructed the corner of the room complete with door and window to check the theory.
It is not possible for someone of MJK height to open the window simply by reaching through.
I found the only way to open it was to use the drain pipe to pull yourself up on to the sill, and then grasping the drain pipe with your right hand reach in through the broken pane with your left hand, but this was very dangerous as a slip would amputate your arm.
This why I believe MJK didn't lock her door but left it on the latch.

The two panes of glass in the window nearest to the door were broken and the photograph shows this (it's easier to see the top one is broken, but the bottom one can also be seen to be broken). (see scan)

Dr Bagster Phillips, in his statement (see below) clearly states that "...2 of the panes in the window nearest the passage were broken...I looked through the lower broken pane...". Abberline stated "...they opened the door by reaching through the window..." I am sure that Abberline would not have said this in his evidence if such a thing was not possible.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Stephen,

The lower right hand window pane was also broken.

Doctor Phillips -

"Two panes in the lesser window were broken, and as the door was locked I looked through the lower of the broken panes and satisfied myself that the mutilated corpse lying on the bed was not in need of any immediate attention from me . . ."

Regards,

Simon

[Stephen Thomas]

Do we know which way the door opened? Inward toward the window or toward the bed?

Inward towards the bed.

Otherwise you'd need 4 foot long arms to reach the lock through the broken window.

Also the hole in the window would have to have been in the lower right hand pane.

For the same reason.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Abby,

Doctor Phillips' evidence at the Kelly inquest 12th November 1888 -

"On the door being opened it knocked against a table which was close to the left-hand side of the bedstead . . ."

Regards,

Simon

[Abby Normal]

I covered this quite comprehensively in my book. The broken window was the upper right pane.

Years ago I constructed the corner of the room complete with door and window to check the theory.

It is not possible for someone of MJK height to open the window simply by reaching through.

I found the only way to open it was to use the drain pipe to pull yourself up on to the sill, and then grasping the drain pipe with your right hand reach in through the broken pane with your left hand, but this was very dangerous as a slip would amputate your arm.

This why I believe MJK didn't lock her door but left it on the latch.

Hi Bob
Do we know which way the door opened? Inward toward the window or toward the bed?

[jason_c]

I covered this quite comprehensively in my book. The broken window was the upper right pane.

Years ago I constructed the corner of the room complete with door and window to check the theory.

It is not possible for someone of MJK height to open the window simply by reaching through.

I found the only way to open it was to use the drain pipe to pull yourself up on to the sill, and then grasping the drain pipe with your right hand reach in through the broken pane with your left hand, but this was very dangerous as a slip would amputate your arm.

This why I believe MJK didn't lock her door but left it on the latch.

Agreed. I think it quite likely that the door was rarely locked.

[macknnc]

One thing I am beginning to fear we are losing sight of is how tiny 13 Miller's Court was! There was barely room in there for MJK, a bed and a small cupboard...(Two people living in that room is almost beyond my imagination to grasp.)

Without the exact dimensons of No.13, and the MJK exact height and arm length, (something most of us have not mentioned...I am by no means tall, but I have fairly long arms..she may have been the same) all any of us can do is grope at theories...and hope one or two of them prove correct.

[Bob Hinton]

The Broken Window

I covered this quite comprehensively in my book. The broken window was the upper right pane.

Years ago I constructed the corner of the room complete with door and window to check the theory.

It is not possible for someone of MJK height to open the window simply by reaching through.

I found the only way to open it was to use the drain pipe to pull yourself up on to the sill, and then grasping the drain pipe with your right hand reach in through the broken pane with your left hand, but this was very dangerous as a slip would amputate your arm.

This why I believe MJK didn't lock her door but left it on the latch.