few questions on mjks background

[joelhall]

probably being stupid here...

ive read and re-read the testimony from barnett and other witnesses at the inquest in mjks death. where exactly do we get the following information from (im assuming press reports or similar but cannot locate these):

the name johnto?

the fact it was henry who was in the army?

the fact he was in the 2nd btn scots guards?

mjks approximate age?

like i said above im assuming these were in a press report, but i cannot find these anywhere (although im using mobile internet so that may have something to do with pages not loading properly).

thanks in advance folks,

joel

[The Grave Maurice]

Another question.

When Barnett said MJK lived with a man named Morganstone in the vicinity of Stepney Gasworks, is that the works on Harford Street, north of Ben Jonson Road, or were there other gas works in Stepney at the time?

[Chris Scott]

Hi Joel
The alleged facts of Kelly's background come overwhelmingly but not uniquely from Joe Barnett. This in itself is not surprising in that they had lived together as de facto man and wife for somewhere about a year and a half.
There are other sources quoted: Mrs Buki, Mrs (Mc)Carthy, Mrs Phoenix, the unnamed City Missionary, witnesses at the inquest and other alleged acquaintances such as "Margaret" and Morris Lewis etc.
The story as presented by Barnett is not from a single source but is threefold in origin:
1) the police statement Barnett made on the day of the murder
2) the inquest testimony given on 12 November and
3) press interviews with Barnett.
Some of the alleged facts are mentioned in one source but not others and in other cases the emphasis can be different. A classic example of this is the alleged name of kelly's miner husband. In one source Barnett says his name was Davis or Davies. In another he opts for the form Davies. In a third he says he cannot remember the name.
So all the alleged facts you mention are in Barnett's story somewhere but no one source has them all
I hope this makes sense
Chris

[Roy Corduroy]

When Barnett said MJK lived with a man named Morganstone in the vicinity of Stepney Gasworks, is that the works on Harford Street, north of Ben Jonson Road,

Yes, GM.

or were there other gas works in Stepney at the time?

There was another near. But in Bow.

[Roy Corduroy]

Maurice, it's almost tempting to take a look at the gasworks in Wapping. At one time called the Ratcliff Company, later the Wapping Works of the Commercial Gas Co., the same company that operated in Stepney. If this was the "Morganstone" gasworks it would be a lot nearer the Pennington/Breezer's Hill/Mrs. Buki axis.





But Joe Barnett said Stepney. And there was a big gasworks there.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

Well, maybe we can only say the following things with some certainty:

1. She was a catholic. Since she lived among people Irish origins, they obviously noticed the differences with Irish catholics and protestants.

2. She obviously spoke with a cross-over accent. Like Sam Flynn has stated, people told her to have a speech impediment. But more likely it was an accent, not recognisable to an average Cockney.

All the best
Jukka

[The Grave Maurice]

Thank you, Roy. I appreciate the information very much.

[Roy Corduroy]

Ben Jonson Road, Stepney

Victory Bridge over Regents Canal


The Stepney gasworks site is redeveloped. Only a part of the old wall remains.

[Roy Corduroy]

Gasworks redux

For an idea of what the facility looked like, a 1930's photo of Imperial Gasworks, St Pancras

[Roy Corduroy]

Back to the Drawing Board

Neal Shelden's Casebook Examiner #1 article sheds new light on this, finding a fit for "Morganstone" on Bow Common Road, near the other Gasworks.

Roy

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Roy!

Exactly like always in MJK's case; even the name of the gasworks is flexible!

All the best
Jukka

[Roy Corduroy]

Exactly like always in MJK's case; even the name of the gasworks is flexible!

Yes Jukka. Turning our attention to Bow Common Lane, two buildings at the gasworks site.

[The Grave Maurice]

Neal Shelden's Casebook Examiner #1 article sheds new light on this, finding a fit for "Morganstone" on Bow Common Road, near the other Gasworks.

Yes, Roy, I was reading Neal and Jennifer's piece last evening. Actually, when I first posed the question, I was hoping that it was the gasworks on Bow Common Road because my great-grandfather had a house just around the corner on Turners Road. But it seems to me that, when I was doing some work at the Bancroft Road Library several years ago, I learned that the area around Bow Common Road wasn't incorporated into Stepney until 1901, so it was unlikely that the works there would be called the Stepney gasworks in 1888. The works on Harford Street seemed to be more likely. I'll dig out my notes later today and see if my memory is faulty.

Anyway, this is an interesting new development. Thanks for the additional photos.

[Roy Corduroy]

...my great-grandfather had a house just around the corner on Turners Road.

Hi Maurice,

So he, your ancestor was there earlier in the 20th century? An interesting family connection you have.

The building in the top photo is a Locally Listed Building - 2 Bow Cottage. The next photo is #120. Based on the '82 business listing, the first building could have been part of the Gasworks. Just a guess.

I was reading Neal and Jennifer's piece last evening.

Maurice, I have been studying it some more, too. An exccellent article which builds on previous research. To let the cat out of the bag, the Sheldens have found, in the 1891 census, Adrienus Felix (ne Morgestern) and Elizabeth Felix (ne Phoenix), along with his daughter Anna, living at 20 Cordelia Street.

What does it mean? As Neal & Jennifer surmise, Mary Kelly had lived with them, maybe on Bow Common Lane.

And in one of those little conincidences that pop up, in a March 1891 police report about Sadler (Ultimate p 626) some background material on him from earlier years is supplied by a Rose Moriarty - of 22 Cordelia Street. The Felixes were living right next door at that time.

Roy

[The Grave Maurice]

So he, your ancestor was there earlier in the 20th century? An interesting family connection you have.

Actually, my great-grandfather lived there in 1888, and my grandfather, too, although he was just a nipper at the time. Ackroyd Road was then called Turners Road, and they lived just a few houses off Bow Common Lane. I have often wondered, if that is the right gasworks, whether someone in my family may have, unknowingly, seen MJK walking around the neighbourhood.