mjks real name

[Suzi]

Good Luck Chris! When we don't know Who- Where From- Why etc etc we can dig for ever- mind you it's fun doing it 'eh!!!!

Mind you- you're running in First Place at the mo!!!!

[Phil Carter]

Suzi,

Agreed!...And rightly so imho

best wishes

Phil

[Suzi]

Exactly Phil-
Trouble is- everyone and his dog/ CAT with any credence( and without!) has dug and dug re MJK- turned the soil over- and over again- nuttin'.. a sort of echoing void.... that's the best you get- dead ends are easy I know and that's what we keep banging our heads against!!!

Blimey if I wanted to 'disappear' I'd have a word with the Kelly/McCarthy clan!!

Talking of which.......- we have a family of Mc Carthys up the road from us who've run a 'roadside shop'- highly successfully for the last 20 odd years!!! There's at least 11 of them in that family!!! .....The answer is out there somewhere- up the road I doubt it- but you never know.........

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
If Fiona Kendall was relating the truth as she heard it, then it is obvious that at the very least the victims brother was traced , otherwise how come he was despatched kellys personal belongings?
If I recall correctly, Barnett was aware that her brothers regiment was stationed then in Cardiff, so his name must have been traceable via the name Kelly, which would suggest that at the very least that would have been her maiden name, if ficticious, then how would they trace her brother.?
I believe that Mary proberly related the truth to Joe, but for some reason that has become elusive to us.
Trace the brother, and we will proberly find her.
Regards Richard.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Suzi,

It is almost impossible to completely dissappear without help of some sort.. even those horrible doctors and asassins from the 2nd World War needed help.
Joseph Mengele more or less did it, as he wasn't discovered to be who he was until after his death.
But here we are talking about protection, and if the MJK figure was who we are led to believe she was, she would never have had that sort of back up.
Therefore there is only two answers in my book... either she was a person under another name, or she didn't exist.
However, if she WASN'T the person we think she was, and did have the possibility of protection afterwards... then we are talking a totally different ball game.
I would like to hear more from Fiona Kendall. At least we would know one way or another if she really was trying to tell us the truth.

However, the JTR case is riddled with people who wish to decieve, some do it to take the p***, others for financial gain. And sadly, anything "outside the accepted norm" is viewed with suspicion immediately.

Part of me wishes we could find the "real" MJK... but I fear it will only ever be an elaborate plot to roll us along and keep the pot boiling...unless someone with genuine credentials discovers the answer to the mystery of MJK.

As you know, I believe MJK3 to be a fake photo. I am nowhere near the only one. That, in itself, tells us where we stand as regard anything new that surfaces.

No doubt someone somewhere is already putting together the next elaborate hoax. That is a shame, and a waste of time for us all.

best wishes

Phil

[richardnunweek]

Hi Phil,
I agree Fiona may hold some vital information, I for one simply fail to understand why she should join Casebook and post some wonderful dangling carrots, and withdraw.
She is apparently a extremely decent person, and genuine, but surely if she has any intrest in Ripperology, and holds any knowledge, even hearsay, in the intrest of Casebook I for one would appeal to her to reveal.
We owe it to everyone that lived during that period, not withstanding those poor women , to solve this case, and Fiona may hold the key.
But I have a strong suspicion her lips are sealed.
Regards Richard.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Richard,

We owe it to everyone that lived during that period, not withstanding those poor women

Yes, close members of my own family included.

best wishes

Phil

[richardnunweek]

Phil,
Yes mine to... my Mrs has become well versed on the subject in the last forty years, she has had the pleasure of being at all the murder spots, complete with my hold nothing back commentaries.
What a nice guy I am....
Regards Richard.

[DirectorDave]

Can someone pleae tell me what "Fiona Kendall" said about MJK? or could you tell me where the posts are?

Thanks,
Dave

[miss marple]

Birth

If her name was Kelly we have a very promising birth entry that has always been there, which needs following up, Which means delving deep into Irish records.
Three siblings born to John Kelly and Anne McCarthy [ coincidence ] ? of CASTLETOWN LIMERICK

Mary Kelly born 1864
John Kelly born 1866
Peter Kelly born 1868
A birth date of 1864 is right for her death at 25,
John was 22 in 1888 old enough for a soldier.
I have not the resources for this, it would mean checking parish records for a marriage of John and Anne, addresses, possible births of other children and seeing if this Mary stayed or married in Limerick which would rule her out, or if she or the whole family disappear, possibly to Wales.
If anyone wants to take it on, its a big task, just tracing that one family.
Cheers Miss Marple

[Phil H]

I haven't read everything on Casebook about MJK, and some of you are mighty knowledgable about the lady, so this may have been suggested before:

Part of the MJK "bio" is some time she supposedly spent in Cardiff with a "cousin" leading a "bad life".

If the cousin was - as somehave assumed - a prostitute who led MJK into such a life (but even if she just got drunk, and MJK was said to be quite violent when in her cups) - could there be any trace in the Cardiff Court records for either the cousin, MJK or both?

It's possible of course that much was lost in wartime bombing, or magistrates court records have been routinely destroyed, but a check by someone who knows how might give some new names or even leads.

A long-shot, but I have not seen it discussed previously.

I was also attracted to the idea - seen somewhere in a thread here - that the Guardsman-brother "Jonhto" might have been a misheard Ianto (especially if MJK was Welsh rather than Irish, or her brother was younger and born in Wales.

Phil

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Phil!

Witty thoughts.

But probably someone has already tried that trail!

All the best
Jukka

[DrHopper]

Hi all
Just a quick observation. Mary Jane Kelly was a Roman Catholic, and thus her name, when entered into the records, followed the RC way of doing things, and was Latinised. This is quite common, and for my own part, I have a Great Great Grandfather, James, who is buried under the name Jacobus (James being a derivation of the original, Jacob) - there are other examples too, but that is one that I particularly remember. Thus Mary Jane Kelly bcomes Marie Jeanette Kelly - there is no mystery as such, and no need to include "her life in France". She was simply a poor Irish immigrant (as indeed many of my own ancestors were), who fell into particulary hard times, and was unlucky on a cold November night in 1888.

Also, and this may also be of relevance. She was Catholic, and would thus almost certainly be fluent in Irish Gaelic. Could this be mistaken for Welsh? Why are we looking in Wales at all? She may have said she was Welsh simply to remove herself from the stigma of being an Irish immigrant, given the anti-Irish sentiment of the time, and this was then repeated by Barnett.

Anyhoo, these are my humble two-pennorth.

[Sickert]

Sorry just had to answer the bottom question "if mickey's a mouse, and pluto's a dog, whats goofy?" He's a dog as well.

[Bridewell]

Cardiff

As others have observed, the various permutations have been tried in different combinations without success, including the possibility that she might have been a little older than she claimed. I've begun to wonder if she might be younger, perhaps having pretended to be older than her years after going "on the game" at a very young age:

At 19, Homfray St, Cardiff there is the following intriguing entry:

John Kelly Head Married 55 Gen Labourer Ireland with:
Margaret Kelly Wife Married 57 Wife Ireland
Helen Kelly Dau'r Unm 24 At Home Cardiff
John Kelly Son Unm 19 Gen Labourer Cardiff
Michael Flavin Boarder Married 24 Gen Labourer Ireland
Margaret Flavin " Married 27 Wife Cardiff
Robert Downey " Unm 6 Scholar Cardiff
James Shea " Unm 14 Scholar Ireland
Mary Flavin " Unm 3mths Infant Cardiff & finally
Mary Ann Kelly Dau'r Unm 16 No Occupation Cardiff

It's very unusual, in my experience, to find a member of the family listed in the census below boarders in this way. Was she in disgrace for some reason?
(Incidentally, her father, in the 1871 census, is a Coal Trimmer on a page where others are recorded as Iron Foundry Workers. I'll see if I can find the same family in the 1891 census....

(I do wish the tabulation would remain in place when I posted it.)

Regards, Bridewell.