mjks real name

[Wickerman]

Hi Lynn.
Well this is the basic point I've been making all along, that until we can sort the wheat from the chaff, everything should remain on the table, provisionally. And I think it is with most people. To not reject a claim is not the same as believing the claim, its prettywell reserving judgement, which is the preferred course of action, I think.

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

which?

Hello Jon. What part is false? Well, try the whole thing.

"Don't we hear that total fabrications are rare, but that embellishing a basic truth is more common?"

Yes, the fundamentum in re. I can live with that--indeed, I assume it. But what counts as that?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Under normal circumstances, concocting an elaborate but false story seems like much ado about nothing. Married, unmarried, child, no child, prostitution--all those would be normal circumstances for an East End lady.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.
But what part is false?
Claiming she was briefly married doesn't seem to serve any purpose to us. So if we knew the context of why she brought the issue up in the first place we might understand better why she made the claim.
As an example, if she was known to be in receipt of a perpetuity allowance due to his death. Or, monies received due to some negligence . Or possibly this "brother" when he visited let something slip about her having a child back home.
Anything along those lines might make her feel obligated to explain, "because I was briefly married years ago".

Don't we hear that total fabrications are rare, but that embellishing a basic truth is more common?
We have not been able to establish a marriage, but a common-law partnership may have existed. I know its easier to just dismiss everything we can't prove but life is not so straightforward.
I'm not in favor of throwing out everything she claimed, or more properly, everything people claimed she said.
Someone so young might have felt obligated to stretch the truth of why she fell so fast in life. If they were not born into this way of life (as MJK wasn't?) then many of these prostitutes only went this way later in life, after the death or abandonment of a supporting spouse?

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

normal circumstances

Hello Jon. Under normal circumstances, concocting an elaborate but false story seems like much ado about nothing. Married, unmarried, child, no child, prostitution--all those would be normal circumstances for an East End lady.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Perhaps mountains and mole hills?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.
Would the story be any less important if she only lived with him, common-law, as we call it today?

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

mole hills

Hello Jon. Perhaps mountains and mole hills?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Rather an insipid thing to evoke all the stories MJK concocted and fed to Barnett.

Cheers.
LC

Ah, Oak trees from acorns?

Jon

[lynn cates]

tasteless

Hello Jon. Rather an insipid thing to evoke all the stories MJK concocted and fed to Barnett.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon. Yes, but it is also consistent with some sort of cover story. Problem is, cover for what?

Cheers.
LC

Having a child?

[lynn cates]

cover

Hello Jon. Yes, but it is also consistent with some sort of cover story. Problem is, cover for what?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon.

"So long as no marriage certificate turns up, sadly the story is potentially bogus."

A potentially bogus story with MJK at the centre? Hmm, continue please.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.
Not knowing the context of why she made this claim is part of the problem. It could be consistent with a plea for sympathy among women of her own kind.

On the other hand, if there had been a genuine marriage we might have expected her to talk more about her husbands family, but apparently Barnett could not recall her talking about them.

Dave.
I said Bond "could have helped us out here", I didn't say anything about proof.

You'll probably find very little risk of pregnancy among these kinds of prostitutes, true intercourse would be a rare occurance.
We even had one extreme case posted on Casebook back in the early days, where a Madam of a brothel, who had spent much of her youth in prostitution actually died a virgin.
Its all about method & technique.

Regards, Jon S.

[lynn cates]

bogus story

Hello Jon.

"So long as no marriage certificate turns up, sadly the story is potentially bogus."

A potentially bogus story with MJK at the centre? Hmm, continue please.

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Dr. Bond could have helped us out here if he had only described the condition of her uterus. :-(

Err...detatched...

Seriously...

OK she was allegedly married a couple of years...but what would the condition of her uterus prove anyway? If she'd been prostituting herself since her teens, the odds are somewhat against her not conceiving at SOME stage during that period, aren't they?

So either she couldn't conceive, or she'd had at least one pregnancy (terminated or otherwise)...so with respect, where would that have got us with regard to proving she was ever married or not...I'm sorry but I don't follow the logic...


Dave

[Wickerman]

Mary could have got the DAVIES story off someone she knew, just speculating,

It is a little odd to claim to have been married at 16 yet hubby dies almost straight away. Lets face it, how many 16 year olds given the right to have legitimate sex (being married) are not going to get pregnant?
Or did she?

Dr. Bond could have helped us out here if he had only described the condition of her uterus. :-(

So long as no marriage certificate turns up, sadly the story is potentially bogus.

Regards, Jon S.

[miss marple]

Interestingly, the family at 19 Homfrey st were living next door no 21, to a family of Matthew Crowley 60, labourer, born Ireland, widower.
Living with him was his daughter Johanna Davies, 29, mother of Mary Ann,6 Alexander 4 Matthew 2, also his sons John 27 gen labourer, and Matthew 19 labourer. all born Cardiff.
Mr Davies is not present on census night, I don't think she is a widow, without looking at original record.
I think she married John Davies in March 1880 at Cardiff, cant find another Cardiff entry between 1872/80.So were her children born before the marriage?
So is Mr Davies working, or absconded or dead?

Mary could have got the DAVIES story off someone she knew, just speculating,

Miss Marple