mjks real name

[joelhall]

ok so i figured id try a few things on ancestry (and today it decides to keep playing up on me).

curious as to what others have tried in searches for her (such as gaelic spellings, common mis-spellings, kenny instead of kelly, etc) and what luck, good or bad, theyve had?

i know shes been subject to long and laborious searches over the years, and its unlikely that any real evidence will surprised us.

still, cant hurt to try can it?

so... anyone advise (other than 'dont waste your time joel hehe)?

[lynn cates]

Kerry

Hello Joel. What about Kerry?

The best.
LC

[joelhall]

good thinking, good thinking.

done a few searches for kelly, kenny, ceallaigh, cully, kerney, etc and maries and marys. come up with interesting results, a few born in ireland moved to wales, or in england in 1881. nothing definite of course, but interesting nonetheless. hey... you never know your luck do you?

[DVV]

ok so i figured id try a few things on ancestry (and today it decides to keep playing up on me).

curious as to what others have tried in searches for her (such as gaelic spellings, common mis-spellings, kenny instead of kelly, etc) and what luck, good or bad, theyve had?

i know shes been subject to long and laborious searches over the years, and its unlikely that any real evidence will surprised us.

still, cant hurt to try can it?

so... anyone advise (other than 'dont waste your time joel hehe)?

Hi Joel,

Don't you think Christopher Scott has already spent enough time searching this all ?

Amitiés,
David

ps: Welcome back (I'm also fresh from elsewhere) and congrats for the good news you've shared on Pub talk.

[joelhall]

yep... and im going to as well. cant let someone else do all the work for me and have all the fun now can i? different people - different perspectives and all that..

thanks david, good to be back.

[DVV]

You know, Joel,

Chris Scott's extensive research left me under the impression that she could have been found...even under another name.
And thus, paradoxically, and on balance, I'd say she was born in Ireland, as Kelly. But only if one forces me to do so...!

Amitiés,
David

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
I would suggest that Mary Kelly was her actual name, a name would have to have been obtainable in order to send her few belongings on to her brother, who was in the army.
I would suggest that her mother, would have been too distressed to get involved with all the attending the funeral , and the press involvement.
The death certificate says it all. Marie jeanette Kelly aka Davies[ her married name].
Somehow she has never however managed to be traced.
Regards Richard.

[DVV]

Hi,
I would suggest that Mary Kelly was her actual name, a name would have to have been obtainable in order to send her few belongings on to her brother, who was in the army.
Regards Richard.

Hi Richard,

agreed. And didn't McCarthy allude to a letter from Ireland ?
The fact that she seemed to have been more prolix about Wales than Ireland suggests that she left her country when very young.

Amitiés,
David

[joelhall]

i agree its most likely her real name was mary jane kelly. i am also well aware that the transcriptions of names from hand written certificates in the 19th century gave room for many errors. indeed ive found one of my own ancestors, thomas hall from runcorn, given as thos hell from remcona, cheshire.

never hurts to double check anything though does it? besides were all human and all miss things, so you never know.

anyway its not just the name which could be suspect, but her background, or at least what was recalled by witnesses of it. certainly, she could have been mary jane kelly on her birth (and baptism) certificate, but when exactly did she live in wales, and when was her birthday?

an ancestry search gives a lot of mary kellys and mary jane kellys and mary jane davies, mary davis, etc, so its perfectly possible she was a little scant with the truth when telling others, or of course they recalled it wrongly.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello joel!

In the "Dissertations" section there is an article named "The Origins of Mary Kelly" by Peter Birchwood. I don't swear, that it's The Mary Kelly, that he found. However, he made one of the most credible searches.

On the other hand, Sam Flynn presented Mary Ballina, a 17-year-old variety singer from 1881. No other information, but; since MJK was known to have been an artist of no mean degree, it could have been her. The only piece of art we know about her is singing. There isn't a last-name called Ballina in the LVP census, but Ballina is a small town in Limerick. Remember; MJK told about Limerick concerning her backround.

So; numerous possibilities.

When I started to track down Mary's real origins, I found Peter Birchwood's one sentence in his article worth thinking; check the most likely story first!

However, I didn't find the needle in the haystack of LVP Mary Kellies...

All the best
Jukka

[KatBradshaw]

Do we have a definative list of names she used?? I believe that she used Lawrence on occaision. Fair Emma as a nickname. It is interesting to compare this with the comments being made on the Eddowes post as a lot is read in to her use of an alias but I think Kelly backs up the idea that this was common.

[joelhall]

well closest ive gotten so far is a marriage between a mary ann kelly and a john brook davis in 1881 in shoreditch hehe. funny how many coincidences there are when you look. still i will not give up hope. certainly if she existed theres a record somewhere and not just the death certificate.

i did find a mary (jane?) kelly living with a couple of other women on their own but i closed the tab by mistake (and safari doesnt let you get back old tabs) and now ive lost it

i will not give up hope just yet...

[joelhall]

well little luck after a day of searching, all ive come away with is mary kelly baptised on 11th may 1863, askeaton, limerick, ireland, parents michael kelly and o'shaugnessy. hardly lighting the world on fire i suspect, but nevertheless i will keep at it.

[DirectorDave]

I'm sure I read a while ago on casebook somewhere that Mary's Parents in Ireland were informed of her death.

If this was the case would in not cast doubt on the theory that Mary Kelly was not her real name? As mentioned earlier in the thread also the return of her effects to her brother.

Also if her father came looking for her as reported, does it not follow that he would make the effort to attend the funeral or inquest?

I think we are missing something simple here......and I'm sure the mystery can be solved.

Btw KENNY is also a popular name in Ireland.......also with the Nickname "Black Mary"......could it be as simple as Mary Black?

Good luck with the searches guys.

[j.r-ahde]

Hello DirectorDave!

Well, I think, you find it easy to believe, that we have been looking for that needle in a haystack of Mary Kellys from the LVP London/Wales/Ireland for years...

Had it been that simple, the search for that needle would have been proven needless a long time ago!

All the best
Jukka