Kelly, mortuary sketches

[cappuccina]

Hi PerryM,

That is exactly why I think they would have tried to sketch or photograph the "pieces", because of the unusual nature of the crime, and the Ripper connection...

If they picked up the body with the bedclothes, or even kept as much as they could on the mattress, they would have had more to work with then one might think...

Hi PerryM...I remember reading two accounts...one sad there were six photos taken, another 10.

It would make perfect sense that the photographer would take as many pictures as he could given the difficulty of the scene he was working with and the weather.

I think there are at least 4 more photos out there...possibly more.... (possibly all lost/destroyed during WWII).

Also, it would make perfect sense that there are mortuary stetches, probably at least 2, i.e., done from different "views" out there. We know that sketching was certainly a part of the autopsy protocol back then, as well as getting aditional photographs of the body in the morgue, and given the horrific and somewhat unusual nature of this crime, these steps (sketching and additional photographs of the body taken at the morgue..) would certainly NOT have been skipped by the pathologist, I don't think...

What is fascinating to me, however, is how the additional information never came to light before WWII, when a lot of things like this were lost and destroyed...

Hi Caps....nice to see you.

Sound reasoning, but we are talking about large pieces of flesh and matter having been removed from the corpse..her arm is almost separated from her body. The wooden box that her remains are taken away in I dont believe was even full coffin sized. Most victims were stretchered to the morgue, Mary need a box.

I dont know what value sketching a hollowed shell would have, unless each individual piece that was cut free is also sketched in its place where found...and there is no indication on record that a police sketch artist was in Millers Court that day.

When they took the other women to the morgue, they took intact human beings with displaced organs that could just be placed back into or on the victim to transport them. With Mary, that could not be done.

I would imagine just raising that corpse intact would be an issue.

Best regards as always Ms Caps.

[cappuccina]

Hi PerryM...I remember reading two accounts...one sad there were six photos taken, another 10.

It would make perfect sense that the photographer would take as many pictures as he could given the difficulty of the scene he was working with and the weather.

I think there are at least 4 more photos out there...possibly more.... (possibly all lost/destroyed during WWII).

Also, it would make perfect sense that there are mortuary stetches, probably at least 2, i.e., done from different "views" out there. We know that sketching was certainly a part of the autopsy protocol back then, as well as getting aditional photographs of the body in the morgue, and given the horrific and somewhat unusual nature of this crime, these steps (sketching and additional photographs of the body taken at the morgue..) would certainly NOT have been skipped by the pathologist, I don't think...

What is fascinating to me, however, is how the additional information never came to light before WWII, when a lot of things like this were lost and destroyed...

[Malcolm X]

What I found interesting about that quote is that this Arthur fellow essentially talks only about Marys economic woes. The bare facts about why she is famous are summarized after.. incorrectly.

He even seems a bit titillated by her predicament.

Id say, no mortuary sketches were ever made of a woman who was covered from the neck down for the jurors to identify. Once they completed the Volte Face, her body would look like a quilt. And I cant imagine sketching would accomplish anything once they knew photos had been taken already.

Im fairly certain Ive read that the photos we know of, MJK1 and MJK3, were 2 of 6 total...I think one of the plates had sequence numbering on them.

Best regards Mal, all.

yes 2 of 6 is what almost everyone sais, but where these are is anybodies guess

What I found interesting about that quote is that this Arthur fellow essentially talks only about Marys economic woes. The bare facts about why she is famous are summarized after.. incorrectly.

He even seems a bit titillated by her predicament.

Id say, no mortuary sketches were ever made of a woman who was covered from the neck down for the jurors to identify. Once they completed the Volte Face, her body would look like a quilt. And I cant imagine sketching would accomplish anything once they knew photos had been taken already.

Im fairly certain Ive read that the photos we know of, MJK1 and MJK3, were 2 of 6 total...I think one of the plates had sequence numbering on them.

Best regards Mal, all.

[Malcolm X]

this is where they're kept:-

Public Record Office at Ruskin Avenue, Kew.

no point trying to do this online, you'd have to visit and stay there all day...i expect you'd find nothing, simply because if there was anything revealing it would already be online, especially photos, as said; the best stuff was probably stolen years ago, lost or destroyed

[Mr.Hyde]

http://www.met.police.uk/history/ripper.htm

Doubt there is one.Anyone checked out MEPO 31140 and MEPO 3/3153 in above?Surmise someone has.
The CE sketch sometimes confused with MK.

[Malcolm X]

the web is ok, but everything you find is either from this website or other ones, no point posting anything up, because it's all been seen before.... mind you, i did see quite a few porn images, i enjoyed that!

more photos definitely exist, i cant imagine only 2 photos been taken; there must be mortuary photos too..these will be hidden away in some dark and dustly location anywhere in the u.k.

i think searching the web like this is one of the most frustrating things to do, i went through hundreds of photo pages on Google... over about 6 hours

[Malcolm X]

http://www.newcriminologist.com/article.asp?cid=171&nid=2082

i found that while searching Autopsy photos on the web.... i've been searching like crazy all afternoon/ evening for any photos of Kelly..........found nothing at all

i expect he means Eddowes

[George Hutchinson]

Where's the quote from?

If it's post-1966, it's probably a muddle of confusion and referring to the CE sketch. I've never heard of a mortuary sketch of MJK.

PHILIP

[Malcolm X]

i quote

``Mary Jane Kelly’s is a case in point. As Eastender Arthur Harding recalls in a recording: “...poor old Mary Kelly; she’d take them up to her room. She had a room in Dorset Street; she probably paid about two bob a week. I think she did pay; a shilling a night she paid. But, see, she hadn’t paid her rent, so poor cow she was, you know what I mean, she was right down to her bottom, nothing.” An exceptionally pretty 25-year-old, Mary was discovered in her bed, disembowelled. The post-mortem photograph, on display behind closed doors, makes for sobering viewing, as do the mortuary sketches.``

what mortuary sketches? .... there are none, or are there!