Definitely canonical

[DVV]

Whitechapel = the church of Mary Matfelon ( maternity) the last victim was called MARY, who was a young fertile woman and a very strong symbol of maternity....

Hi again Malcolm,
Just to remind you that MK was killed in Spitalfields.

Amitiés,
David

[Malcolm X]

Hi Malcom,

I think it is simply because he had more time. As for Eddowes, her face was not just nicked. The doctor who performed the autopsy said "the face was very much mutilated." Looking at her photos on Casebook will confirm this. I have no doubt that the Ripper would have killed Kate in the same manner as he did Mary if he had had more time.

c.d.

there are also tiny nicks there too...look closely and look at the shape of them

[Malcolm X]

Hi again Malcolm,
Just to remind you that MK was killed in Spitalfields.

Amitiés,
David

but not back in the year 1250 !.... these murders might refer back to the years 1250 to 1286, not sure yet

[DVV]

Quel Béotien je fais! Où avais-je la tête?!

[Malcolm X]

i apologise for going off thread here.............sorry
Robert the Bruce had his heart removed !
Knights Templar, Mary Magdalene, Mary Matfelon .

[DVV]

....and true, things weren't right in 1250. But, thanks God, in 1270 Yekunno Amlak killed the last Zagwe and Salomon's descendants came back to power.
Ouf!

[perrymason]

Hi again,

Thanks for the replies to my post, but neither addressed the fact that Phillips was compelled to discuss the specific nature of her lower body injuries despite his protest on Sept 19th at Annies Inquest. He disclosed the wounds and acts he found were present, it is said, in detail.

That would indicate that the press release of the Inquest details on the 20th would have those remarks, and therefore be in the publics hands that same day.

Which means that anyone who read the paper would know that almost 2 months before Mary Kellys death that flaps of skin were cut from Annies abdomen.

As I said, you may think it unlikely that a killer used that information at Marys murder scene, but you cannot categorically say it wasnt used, with any proof to demonstrate that. Its unlikely that George Hutchinson knew of Sarah Lewis's statement before Marys Inquest on the Monday, but as in this situation, you cannot rule out that he acted Monday night based on the account of that sighting Monday afternoon. As long as the information is generally available before the actions in question are taken... it could have been used by the killer.

Which makes....as I said, the assertion that Mary was definitely a Canonical, premature at best.

A status she had before this thread existed.

No offense intended.

Best regards.

[Malcolm X]

just bear with me one more time.

mary jane kelly.... could be in the killers mind... Mary Matfelon and of course, later Mary Magdelane.... this ties in to the Whitechapel of the 1250 era, which is named after ``mary matfelon``

finally, his murders have resulted in the ultimate sacrilige, he has murdered a ``symbol`` of Mary Magdalene and removed her heart/ desercrated her body, who might have been; according to the scriptures a young prostiture ... this is one of my crazy theories, but please give this more than a casual glance...

the other murders are blood sacrafices and of course organs removed, which is a requirement for the occult.... but this theory needs loads of work, because these murders must form a pattern of some type that corresponds to an occult symbol..... not necessarily 2 triangles, or the V.P.

why only 5 murders, culminating in the total butchery and wiping out of all womanhood, of a young fertile woman called Mary, in an area called Whitechapel or Mary Matefelon..... and he killed her indoors, Mary Magdelane gave birth indoors... and Mary Kelly is posed very similar to childbirth

is this pure and utter coincidence?.... maybe, but by God it fires me up

i'm sorry for screwing up this thread, but i needed to grab your attention... if anyone is interested i will open another thread in a more suitable area

[perrymason]

Its also a bit of a stretch to suggest that Kates death and Marys resembled each others. The facial wounds and a concept that any organ taken qualifies as an act of The Rippers are the only aspects that may broadly be considered commonalities....almost everything about her death is similar to Pollys and Annies,...not Marys.

At least her killer demonstrated a continuing interest in taking organs found in the abdomen...including the same one that was taken before.

Best regards.

[perrymason]

just bear with me one more time.

mary jane kelly.... could be in the killers mind... Mary Matfelon and of course, later Mary Magdelane.... this ties in to the Whitechapel of the 1250 era, which is named after ``mary matfelon``

finally, his murders have resulted in the ultimate sacrilige, he has murdered a ``symbol`` of Mary Magdalene and removed her heart/ desercrated her body, who might have been; according to the scriptures a young prostiture ... this is one of my crazy theories, but please give this more than a casual glance...

the other murders are blood sacrafices and of course organs removed, which is a requirement for the occult.... but this theory needs loads of work, because these murders must form a pattern of some type that corresponds to an occult symbol..... not necessarily 2 triangles, or the V.P.

why only 5 murders, culminating in the total butchery and wiping out of all womanhood, of a young fertile woman called Mary, in an area called Whitechapel or Mary Matefelon..... and he killed her indoors, Mary Magdelane gave birth indoors... and Mary Kelly is posed very similar to childbirth

is this pure and utter coincidence?.... maybe, but by God it fires me up

i'm sorry for screwing up this thread, but i needed to grab your attention... if anyone is interested i will open another thread in a more suitable area

Yikes.

[DVV]

Hi again,

Thanks for the replies to my post, but neither addressed the fact that Phillips was compelled to discuss the specific nature of her lower body injuries despite his protest on Sept 19th at Annies Inquest. He disclosed the wounds and acts he found were present, it is said, in detail.

That would indicate that the press release of the Inquest details on the 20th would have those remarks, and therefore be in the publics hands that same day.

Which means that anyone who read the paper would know that almost 2 months before Mary Kellys death that flaps of skin were cut from Annies abdomen.

As I said, you may think it unlikely that a killer used that information at Marys murder scene, but you cannot categorically say it wasnt used, with any proof to demonstrate that. Its unlikely that George Hutchinson knew of Sarah Lewis's statement before Marys Inquest on the Monday, but as in this situation, you cannot rule out that he acted Monday night based on the account of that sighting Monday afternoon. As long as the information is generally available before the actions in question are taken... it could have been used by the killer.

Which makes....as I said, the assertion that Mary was definitely a Canonical, premature at best.

A status she had before this thread existed.

No offense intended.

Best regards.

Ah, my dear Mike,
we know you will never give up.
That's part of your charm!

Amitiés mon cher,
David

[Mitch Rowe]

Thanks Fish,
and apologies to Mitch...I admit I'm not fully in it these times...

Amitiés mon cher,
David

None needed dude! I figured between the skin flaps thing. And the two notches to the vertibrea. And the description of the cutting "Right Round" the neck thats three strikes and youre out!

And not only that. Phillips and Bond use nearly the exact same wording to describe the wounds!

I think its clear that Jack is able to leave patterns that we can use to nail him on some things. I personally think he is nailed with AC and MJK.

For me I no longer consider ACs and MJKs murders as separate. They are now combined and I use them as an indicator of Jacks patterns.

My opinion is its perfectly safe to do that. My opinion is Im very cautious about saying Im 100% sure of anything. In fact I will probably never be 100% sure about anything else in these cases. But as far as AC and MJK are concerned by multiplying the odds(A generalization here. Im giving the odds a far far greater chance than I truly believe. But I want to be sure.)of the flaps/vertibrea and neck wound desription I feel I can give myself a gift of 100% assurity at least for one single fact in these cases.

Concerning the odds of a copy-cat type thing going on with MJK. I would say its possible but highly highly unlikely. First of all a copy-cat is rarer than the real thing. Second he/she has to find it out in the press. Then they have to remember under great stress. And they have to act perfectly normal afterwards. It wouldnt work. The normal thing to do is cut and flee. Something like we see with Stride. But im not saying Stride is an indicator of a copy-cat. Just that if there were a copy-cat the best argument for that might be Stride.

[perrymason]

Ah, my dear Mike,
we know you will never give up.
That's part of your charm!

Amitiés mon cher,
David

Thanks David, but thats only partially true....I will gladly give up my opinion should some evidence be discovered that makes that opinion untenable.

Since I believe the only thing that was done to Mary Kelly that hadnt been printed in the papers via the previous murders is the stripping of all tissue from a thigh,... and partially so the remaining one.....virtually every act seen done to Mary could be by a copy cat action.

And in some instances, like the evidence that suggests Marys wasnt unconscious while being attacked near her face with a knife, and that a perfectly good uterus taken twice from Ripper victims is left under her head, not a very good copycat either. Let alone that this killer worked in the victims own room.

My best regards as always David.

[Jon Guy]

a perfectly good uterus taken twice from Ripper victims is left under her head, not a very good copycat either. Let alone that this killer worked in the victims own room.

Ah, but what else was found alongside the uterus, tucked away under Kelly`s head ? The kidney`s !!! Exactly what was plundered from Eddowes. I reckon he put them to one side but moved Kelly`s body on top of them and took the heart by impulse instead.

Kelly may have been killed indoors but she could have picked her killer up out on the street as the other victims did.

[perrymason]

Ah, but what else was found alongside the uterus, tucked away under Kelly`s head ? The kidney`s !!! Exactly what was plundered from Eddowes. I reckon he put them to one side but moved Kelly`s body on top of them and took the heart by impulse instead.

Kelly may have been killed indoors but she could have picked her killer up out on the street as the other victims did.

I believe it was her breast Jon, although I dont recall specifically all that was under her head. The fact that it is left when taken twice before and even in a partial state is curious.

On her picking up a client.....what you would need is a single believed witness that either sees Mary go out, sees her out, or sees her return after 11:45 November 8th. You do not have that in Hutchinson.

If Mary didnt pick her client up while she was outside thought to be soliciting, its a far greater indicator that this wasnt Jack than the leaving of the uterus was. Or the myriad of superfluous cuts that were not made to achieve objectives as the vast majority of the previous victims presented demonstrably.

To take an abdominal organ, you enter the abdomen. If you cut something out of the way, thats functionally motivated mutilation.

If you sit and carve flesh from bone on one half of a limb, thats curiousity or some kind of dysfunctionally motivated mutilation. If you slash a face beyond the ability for it to be easily recognized, thats dysfunctional motivation at work.

The only such cuts that I see that precede Mary might be the facial wounds Kate gets, and the severing of 2ft of her colon to place between her arm and body.

Best regards Jon.