Millers Court Today.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Neil,

Im sure Gareth will put me straight but Havelock Street is near the docks?

Havelock Street is practically in the city centre. It's a short walk from Cardiff General train station and the bus depot, within spitting distance of the Millennium Stadium (widely, and incorrectly, known as "Cardiff Arms Park"). The docks are a fair distance away.

The source for the "Havelock Street" story, according to the link posted by Jeff, appears to have been a report in the South Wales Echo of the 12th November 1888. Heaven knows where they got it from - the story is new to me, so it's an interesting find.

I might dream that "Havelock Street" was a mis-hearing of "Halkett Street", which was practically a ghetto of poor Irish immigrants throughout the latter half of the C19th, and where my personal favourite for a Cardiffian "Mary Kelly" lived.

[Monty]

Jeff,

I just checked my stuff, yes he was named 'Jackripa' by his local village.

Monty

[Jeff Leahy]

All rather interesting

I can still find nothing via google on 'Jackripa' ?

I don't suppose you have the Echo article in full do you Garath?

I'm curious of the source, its completely new info on MJK, to me, if true.

Yours Jeff

[Mike Covell]

I had a look under "Google" and found nothing. I tried "Ask Jeeves", "Lycos" and "Excite" and all 4 showed the same results albeit in different order.

[Sam Flynn]

I don't suppose you have the Echo article in full do you Garath?

I'm afraid I don't, Jeff. The last copy of I owned of the South Wales Echo (or the "Eckoo", as some Valleys people pronounce it for some unknown reason) was published... this year Perhaps Mr Begg can help us with anything pre-2008

[George Hutchinson]

There was a feature on Jacripa in the WS1888 Journal a year or two ago. I don't go along with suspects and have no interest in it, but this made a very plausible case for adding him to the list. Well worth searching out.

PHILIP

[Monty]

Philip,

It was a piece by the late, great Des McKenna, and anything by him was always worth reading.

Monty

[Monty]

Gareth,

Thanks for putting me straight.

Jeff, Mike,

Check the A-Z under Thomas.

Monty

[Jeff Leahy]

Thomas, Dr William Evans (1856-1889)

Alleged suspect, born Anglesey. From at least 1884, Dr Thomas practiced at 190 Green Street, Victoria Park., about three quarters of a mile away from Bucks row. Local oral tradition in Anglesey exaggeratedthe location to Spital feilds. Following the last killing, he suffered a breakdown, and after he had been fetched back to Anglesey, piosoned himself. It is not known whether the traditions (made public in 1993) also exaggerated the ralation to Ripper murders of his earlier visits home. North wales Villagers give him the Welsh name 'Jacripa'.

Well there's interesting info. Many thanks to you both for those leads..

I will of course harry the old welshman 'Begg' next week as I ow him a visit.

Many thanks guys

Jeff

[Monty]

No worries Jeff, and remind Paul he owes me a pint.

Monty.

[Limehouse]

The only possible benefit that could ever come from that happening would be the possible uncovering of any remaining foundations of the buildings of Dorset Street - surely they had cellars? Actually... did they? We've never discussed this one.

PHILIP

Phillip, according to Ian Sinclair, there are 'catacombs' beneath the Fruit Exchange. These are used for storage. I'd like to bet these are the remains of cellars belonging to the old buildings in Dorset Street? I got this information from a book called Rodinsky's Room by Rachel Lichtenstein and Ian Sinclair.

[George Hutchinson]

Hmm... this might be worthy of an enquiry to the main office in Brushfield Street, methinks. I wonder where you'd start?

The 1928 image of the destruction of the block shows the cellars appearing to be extant and not being filled in. Mind you, half of the north side of Duval Street was still standing so it might be early on.

There's a great old guy who works in the section where #13 was and he's always friendly to me when I come round with my groups so maybe I could ask him sometime?

PHILIP

[Steve S]

Still cellars there in the 60's when my Dad worked there.....
Steve

[Veritas]

Quite all right Sam.

I remember being at the site at the end of the Rumbelow tour. It was around 10:30 at night and I was thinking that there should be such an eerie or somber feeling, but there were fifty fellow tourists standing around debating things with Donald and he was doing his best to sell books and it was all very distracting. Definitely didn't feel like I was standing on the spot where Mary died and where Abberline knelt down to probe the fireplace. Can anyone share the feelings they've had while visiting the site alone?

Visitng the site alone (even in the day time but preferabbly at night) is far more evocative then with a large tourr group. However it helps to know the history of Dorset/Duval Street first. I first visited "Miller's Court" site in 1986 on a tour but there were only 20 - 24 of us so we got more of the atmosphere and sense of dread. I took the Rumbelow tour in 1996 and frankly could not say that it was much better then a number of tours I have taken. You are right - Rumbleow likes to sell books and is sort of dogmatice when you try to state a case for example that Tabram was a Ripper victim. Too bad Duval/Dorset Street was obliterated first in 1928 (North side) and then in the late 1960's (South side) - so much hisotry and atmosphere. Speaking of atmosphere the most evocative of the canonical sites had to have been Durward Street especially when approached via the Woods Buildings entrance. Unfortunately the Woods Buldings entrance was closed the last time I was in Lndon in 2005.

[WARSPITE]

Yeh I posted that original thread..

The proposal was to demolish both the White Row car park and the fruit exchange and in its place build an office block straddling both. This would mean the site of Millers Ct would be inside the building itself.

It was approved in principal, but the planners didnt like the architecture of the proposed building in comparision with older buildings in the area.

This info is available on the Tower Hamlets planning website.

Kevin

Ill go mad if they put up a s****y modern office block on Duval St. Phils point is a good one about uncovering cellars,but I doubt theyd let us examine them if there were any left. Id feel strong enough to stage a sit in protest. Anyone joining me?