the Rent arrears

[Sam Flynn]

Indeed, Sam - thanks for the support.

Not a problem. Now, if you'll forgive me, I think I'll leave this discussion and talk with myself over there.

[Ally]

I talk to myself all the time. Only way to have a decent conversation.

[Sam Flynn]

I know how you feel

[Marlowe]

Hi Chava,

As I seem to recall, Kelly was supposed to have been busty. Well, busty or curvy women can easily manipulate men as it relates to money. (don't lie -- it's true!) Kelly sounds exactly like she could do this, based upon Hutchinson's (I know - I know) comments regarding him giving her money in the past, and her calling him by his last name and then casually asking him for money. So maybe McCarthy....All I know is, they have easily controlled me!!! But I'm not complaining.

[Chava]

Hi Chava,

As I seem to recall, Kelly was supposed to have been busty. Well, busty or curvy women can easily manipulate men as it relates to money. (don't lie -- it's true!) Kelly sounds exactly like she could do this, based upon Hutchinson's (I know - I know) comments regarding him giving her money in the past, and her calling him by his last name and then casually asking him for money. So maybe McCarthy....All I know is, they have easily controlled me!!! But I'm not complaining.

I'm not knocking the attraction men have for curvy women! And, yes, that had occurred to me. Was the first thing that occurred to me! In which case, why send someone to collect the rent, which you have consciously forgiven for, er, other methods of payment.

[Marlowe]

Chava,

No, ahem, see it works like this. Kelly, a woman with unusual charms, NEVER has to give Hutchinson, or McCarthy, ANYTHING in return! Zero! Nothing. She has mastered the art of "maybe one day, but today, I need a favor." And as I theorized yesterday, if McCarthy knew Kelly was going to get more than her usual, as with payment for her room, let's say, he would naturally then send Bowyer around as early as possible to get it before it's gone. But I'm really playing Devil's Advocate here, (or in this case, Lucifer's Advocate) because I do agree with you. But also....

Because...you, just like the mothers of all my Jewish ex-girlfriends, always think the Irish bad boy is up to no good ;-))

[Chava]

Aahh the Irish guys! I remember them. Gave my mother fits! Taught me all the old IRA songs as well.

[Roy Corduroy]

Taught me all the old IRA songs

Sing,
Sing a song
Take a thread
Make it long

[Supe]

Ally,

I talk to myself all the time. Only way to have a decent conversation.

Thanks.

Don.

[Sam Flynn]

Against my better judgment, but...

I posted this on the McCarthy thread but, since there seems to be no let-up in the drive to implicate McCarthy at all costs, I thought I'd repost it here:

by the way, in case anyone is interested, no I don't think McCarthy killed her to get her out of the bloody room so he could rent it!

Neither do I, Chava... so why would he have killed and savagely mutilated her?

If the answer is, "because he was the psychopath known as Jack the Ripper", then (ignoring the circularity of that argument) we may need to rule out Stride and Eddowes from the list of the Ripper's victims. Judging by the events surrounding Kelly's murder, both women were killed well before he stopped serving in his shop. (We also know that a chandler's shop on Thrawl Street stayed open until at least 2AM, based on independent evidence put forward in relation to the Tabram case.)

We would also have to consider removing Annie Chapman from the "canon", on the assumption that McCarthy would have had to have been scrubbed up, calmed down and ready to open his shop for business - if it wasn't already open - within perhaps tens of minutes after her death.


I'd appreciate it, if you have any observations on the foregoing, that you post them on the appropriate thread, because they have nothing to do with Kelly's rent arrears, and I apologise for having to post them again here.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
With reference to the press reports mentioning Mrs McCarthy, and son[ Fiona Kendalls grandfather] collecting rents at the same time as Bowyers visit, it is indeed in a report which I shall dig out this evening[ I am unfortunetly off to work shortly].
The assumption made by myself that the room was almost certainly in the man calling himself Kelly name. I would take as the logical policy of any landlord, except in rare circumstances.
My main concern with all of this , is the events leading up to the discovery of the body, and the positioning of the players.
I should state here, that I shall also dig out the reference to the 'concerned residents' this evening.
If one takes the view that the morning events were infact this.
Somewhen after 9am, proberly concern by Catherine pickert that kelly did not arouse from her 730am knock, told a resident or two that it was unusual for the blinds to have been closed, and she was not up and about, took there concerns to McCarthy, who said he would send his man to check on her.
This corresponded shortly after his wife, and son, had gone to the court to obtain rents.
On discovering poor Mary, he rushed back to his master, who proceeded to the court, and upon verification, went to his son saying' Go as fast as you can to commercial station, dont speak to anyone along the way, and tell them McCarthy sent you come quick there has been a murder'.
After a few seconds he told Bowyer to follow on.
The fact is Inspector Dew firmly states the word 'Youth' twice in his book, at the station a youth, followed by at the court I interviewed the youth again, this time he was more calmer having settled.
But over the years it has been fashionable to ignore this, by remarking that the inquest did not state this.
We however should not forget that although Fionas grandfather was kept away from the sight of the body, it would have been a traumatic experience for a 14 year old, and I would be not at all surprised if he was not sent to relatives away from that area for a while.
Speculation Yes, however the reports are there, in press form . and from the mouth of Inspector Dew , who may have his memory losses after 40years , but to interpret Bowyer as a youth surely is hard to make a case for.
Regards Richard.

[Bailey]

How old was Bowyer, and what's our source for that? And how old was Dew at the time in relation?

B.

[Sam Flynn]

How old was Bowyer, and what's our source for that? And how old was Dew at the time in relation?

Bowyer was 37 at the time, according to his inquest statement. Dew would have been 25 in 1888.

[Supe]

Bailey,

More to the point, perhaps is that walter Dew was in his 70s when he wrote his memoirs and that may be why there are so many errors. The charitable thing to say is that he "misremebered." Though, where his accounts can be compared with contemporary accounts, he seems to add freely colorful details.

As it is, no contemporary newspaper accounts mention a "youth" going to notify the police and those early newspaper stories are, themselves, rife with unmitigated nonsense (e.g. the murder of Lizzie Fisher occurred in Cartin's Court in a second floor "assignation room" rented by a gentleman for the night . . . and so on). Unless you are one of those who believe the police were engaged in a giant cover up, it is best to stick with official police and inquest records for the basic facts.

Don.

[Chava]

I agree with Don. The press reports are rife with mistakes, especially the first couple of days after the murder.