Kelly photo 1 enhanced - graphic

Sam

Some things are just not worth persuing.

Like this thing.

And despite the gentleman quote a few days ago, youve shown us that you seem to feel you own truth too...and have mocked anyone that challenged you or Sam.

Are you freaking children or what....grow some eggs and act like men, accept that you are not always right, and acknowledge that others can be....and no-one will have any issues.

This is just 10% of the ego iceberg here....and both you gents are smart enough to grasp this opinion.

I think The Simpsons are preferable to remaining on here today...at least they know they are asses sometimes.

Cheers.

Sam Flynn,

I think youre the only person that I like and respect despite the fact that you seem to believe yourself incapable of error.....thats what I was getting at Sam, and this is far from the first occassion. Its not that youre not being credible, its your opinion that no-ones else might be that irks people. Tell me....is this the first time someone has gotten pissed off being told they are wrong by you? Even when the matter being discussed is opinion based?

You are smart, knowledgable and witty Sam...thats the reason many of us continue to plead with you to acknowledge other peoples opinions with some grace, instead of invariably telling them flat out they are wrong. Like youve done with me, on a few occassions over the years. Its your outstanding qualities that help many of us overcome the insults we are offered with them.

Youve claimed people cant see images properly, they cant tell scale, that they mistake the references and innuendo, and often with a sarcastic comment or some clever wit.

If you think that I, or BlackKat, or anyone here, should sit quietly while their opinions are being treated like doggy doo...opinions that are well thought out, like yours...then I would suggest to you that you are mistaken, and should reacquaint yourself with some humility.

If your pissed off now, then you have a modest understanding of the rage I felt when I was told that 2 news articles supercede any amount of contrary reporting....despite the fact that none of the overwhelming majority of accounts from 8 different sources do not agree with your single source-2 article argument. The fact I even address comments made that infer I am some idiot for my opinions or beliefs is due to my feelings of friendship and respect for you....but when someone whom you offer respect doesnt respond in kind,...then you have issues like this one.

On the contrary, you have been extended the benefit of doubt on many occassions, because you are smart in general...not because you were right on those points. It is not we who treat you with disrespect...it has been, and likely will continue to be, the other way round.

Im sorry to put it bluntly Sam...but as I said, if I didnt think you were worth bringing this issue to the forefront, I would just dismiss any comments that demean my intellect or powers of deduction, and eventually, the poster.

Whether you feel it at the moment or not...I am your friend, and thats why I bother.

Best regards.

[Stephen Thomas]

Sam

Some things are just not worth persuing.

Like this thing.

[Sam Flynn]

No Sam with everything that you stated you made it seem as though the knee was higher - here let me show you:

I posted my first picture with text in purple and one area said "Upper thigh" you stated that it wasn't her upper thigh it was her knee and you made it sound as if the knee was here:

That's because it is her knee, Kat.

Since it's plain and in front of your face that's fine but as you said to other's it might not be so apparent and I wanted to help out.

You did so by gainsaying every common sense point that I was trying to make. From my POV it didn't feel as if you were being particularly helpful.

Thanks Sam. You're a real nice guy.

So being right on this occasion makes me a baddie, does it? There's no hope for the world if that's the case.

[Blackkat]

Sam that's because of the way you drew your green line and the way you worded it. It made it sound and made it visual as to where you said the knee was at. You said that was her knee and the reason we couldn't see the thigh behind it. Don't get furious

" I'm frankly furious that I'm being painted out to be an imbecile"

Well it doesn't feel very good does it?

[Sam Flynn]

Still fuming...

I was giving you praise... because you allowed for a possible error BKat.

I wasn't allowed the same leeway. Kat says that Jane placed her knee halfway between where she and I placed it, a claim which was as patently untrue as it was disingenuous.

[Sam Flynn]

I believe there is a real Casebook lesson here.....do not back down to someone because they say "youre wrong"....do not assume that someone else knows less than you do....do not mimic or mock others contentions unless you have unequivacable facts that show them in error....and dont assume that your opinion is worth equal value to those of the qualified medical opinions or notes...unless you are in fact a physician.

Less of the sanctimony, Mike. I'm frankly furious that I'm being painted out to be an imbecile, and that you've decided to take an unwarranted and platitudinous pop at me.

My original drawing showed the green line going from the top of Kelly's right knee to the equivalent point on her left, whereas Jane's drawing shows the bend of the knee - but both are part and parcel of the knee joint.



Credit where it's due. I was right, Jane backed it up. That's because we both have some idea of what we're talking about.

I was giving you praise... because you allowed for a possible error BKat...thats what I posted.

All the best.

I believe there is a real Casebook lesson here.....do not back down to someone because they say "youre wrong"....do not assume that someone else knows less than you do....do not mimic or mock others contentions unless you have unequivacable facts that show them in error....and dont assume that your opinion is worth equal value to those of the qualified medical opinions or notes...unless you are in fact a physician.

Cheers all.

[Blackkat]

Hi Michael!

No I already stated that it was between both of our marks, I had actually seen where it was before Jane posted. I stated it in a previous post to Sam. That is why I wanted to do the recreation to show that.

Anyhoo I do like this sketch is shows it exactly as I had finally seen it. It helps.

between Sam and BKat's mark...once again proving that we all believe we are correct, until a better opinion comes along.

Stephen,
my post just meant that if we had done the recreation you could try to glean whatever you could from mjk1 for mjk3 - if you could have ( meaning if our recreation could have helped)

digress in the presence of such experts - there seems to be many around here at casebook.

Oh and by the way thanks for saying that it could have yielded some interesting results if done properly. I do appreciate that.

[Blackkat]

No Sam with everything that you stated you made it seem as though the knee was higher - here let me show you:

I posted my first picture with text in purple and one area said "Upper thigh" you stated that it wasn't her upper thigh it was her knee and you made it sound as if the knee was here:



Which is the very reason why I thought your placement of the knee was too high and made her calf way too long. You're green line from knee to knee. At any rate, that's how it sounded and I think a few people thought you meant her knee was where I placed the X above.


I had already stated to you that both of us were wrong in our placement - meaning that I had the knee too low - and that I wanted to do a recreation to help out. You basically discredited that too, unless I could cut where I needed to cut (gashes etc) and have the exact kind of camera etc etc. Well f*** how do scientists try to recreate things of that nature in present time. They either have what they need or they get as close as they can. (computer software, etc etc)

It doesn't excuse the fact that you became demeaning - thinking I, nor professionals would be able to do the recreation justice, and that anything I might have added wouldn't be credible enough to contribute to casebook,and yes you made it sound as if you thought the knee was where the X is above, maybe not to everyone but to some it appeared that way. I wanted to recreate the scene and show were I thought the real knee was placed at - a clear photo that would show the knee was where Jane sketched it to be.

Since it's plain and in front of your face that's fine but as you said to other's it might not be so apparent and I wanted to help out. Thanks Sam. You're a real nice guy.

Do what???? Jane puts the knee exactly where I put it! In contrast, your placement of Kelly's knee indicated that it had flown South for the winter!

Fair do's!!!

Sam,

The hash marks on Janes picture indicate the kneecap, your estimate was not that the knee itself was there. It is not the top of the encircled area, which was your contention...I believe.

While we are redressing some issues, I still firmly believe that the line seen across her right calf below the knee was a slice, and made so that the killer could fully expose the knee joint...had he finished. That seems to me an indication, as I said, that he was considering removing the lower portion. Even the Torso killer left flesh on the parts he wanted intact.

Cheers.

I think Jane has done the best job so far illustrating where the knee joint is....and funnily enough it is between Sam and BKat's mark...once again proving that we all believe we are correct, until a better opinion comes along. And I hand it to Kat to offer that same explanation to explain the variances in Sams and Kats contentions....even the best of us are wrong at times, its wise to bear that in mind when "asserting beyond all doubt". It also matches the fact that the left inner thigh only reveals its injuries when looking at MJK3, because its barely visible at all in MJK1. And Kats contention that the angle of her left leg, when using horizontal mapping, is "higher" in MJK3 than in MJK1, is I believe an accurate one.

Paddy Goose, if your urping at merely discussing the photos, perhaps taking in another less gory thread might be a good idea.

Best regards all.

[Stephen Thomas]

By the way Stephen we would have been working with mjk1 - so whatever you could've gleaned from mjk1 for mjk3 would be up to you. I'll digress in the presence of such "experts".

I haven't even a vague idea what that is supposed to mean but by all means ignore everything I say if you wish. Ignorance is bliss as the saying goes,

[Sam Flynn]

Jane,
Thank you for this post! Showing the knee in-between where Sam and I had placed it.

Do what???? Jane puts the knee exactly where I put it! In contrast, your placement of Kelly's knee indicated that it had flown South for the winter!

Fair do's!!!