Face first?!

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

This is like the Lilliputs parties arguing about, that from which end the egg should be broken...

But, but...

Did Saucy Jacky cut the face first or the body?!

All the best
Jukka

[Monty]

Havent we been here before?

My Spidey-sense is tingling, I predict a long, heated and drawn out debate with no conclusion.

Suffice to say, as I stated way back when, the evidence for me points to face first then torso.

Monty

[kensei]

This sounds like a question that any answer to is bound to be controversial, and which would also apply to Catherine Eddowes. Of course the throat would be cut first and all the rest would be post-mortem, but after that my answer would be the face. In my opinion, in the photos of Catherine one can see a face (through the wounds) that was more attractive than that of the early victims, aging but with traces of the young woman she had once been. That face can be more easily imagined in the photos of her descendants shown in the book "The Victims of Jack the Ripper" by Neal Stubbings Shelden. And she was the first victim to have her face slashed. Then came Mary Kelly, who was said to be genuinely pretty, and her face was completely torn off. Again in my opinion, it seems to suggest that the Ripper hated women and wanted to think of them as ugly, and that a pretty face was offensive to him and he didn't want to have to look at it.

[KatBradshaw]

I would say the torso first. Can't help thinking he would want Mary to 'see' what was being done to her. Then he would attack the face as the final incult.

[Mitch Rowe]

Face Last.

I tend more towards face last No sign in Nichols/Chapman. I dont believe the Ripper wouldnt have gone for the face given time. I think JTR was playing a delicate game of getting as much done as he could as best he could in as little time as possible. In the case of Chapman I think the ripper thought he had enough time so started with the flaps. Then after he obtained organs something made him decide to just cut and run. Maybe Cadosch. In the case of Eddowes I think his "ripping" technique turned out better than thought and the ripper had some extra time by his reckoning but was afraid to go any further with the abdomen because he might be caught kneeling or to involved
to get away quickly. He may have stood beside her to do the face in case someone came along.

[Sam Flynn]

My Spidey-sense is tingling, I predict a long, heated and drawn out debate with no conclusion.

Suffice to say, as I stated way back when, the evidence for me points to face first then torso.

My "owl-sense" is tingling, and I agree with you yet again, Neil

[Dan Norder]

Monty's argument that there is no reported fecal matter or so forth in the facial wounds would seem to point toward the facial mutilations happening before the rest.

[Suzi]

'Owl tingling' too- [Owl tingling!!!??? hehe!!- sounds fun though]

My thoughts are:-

1. Throat (with or without strangulation first)
2.Face
3.Guts
4. Up and run! (or mingle with the crowd/go back to being a copper/watchman/passer-by)

Suz x

[The Good Michael]

No fecal matter in the facial wounds, with regards to Eddowes, might explain why he wanted some apron. He may have cut/torn a piece with which to immediately wipe his blade and hands so he could cut the face without obscuring things, thus providing a better illustration of his work to those who would discover it. This really would explain away the idea that he needed a little pit of cloth for carrying away bits.

Cheers,

Mike

[Sam Flynn]

No fecal matter in the facial wounds, with regards to Eddowes

Steady - this is "Kelly: Face first?", Mike. Lord knows, there's enough about Eddowes' apron happening on two other threads right now - and one of those is about Chapman! (Annie, not George )

[The Good Michael]

I suppose I get out of this one by saying, "If we can reconstruct Eddowes as being a 'face last' scenario, we may be able to apply the same logic to kelly."

Yet, I'm not going to say that as I was caught red-handed.

Cheers,

Mike

[Monty]

Gareth,

Tis indeed a Kelly thread as opposed to an Eddowes thread, so apologies to Dan for misleading him. I thought it was an Eddowes thread.

[Suzi]

I think this could be 'Faecally flawed' 'eh Nope- Throat first,Face then Guts for me!!
That's Kate!

[Sam Flynn]

Tis indeed a Kelly thread

No probs from my POV, Neil - I incline to the belief that it was "face first" with Kelly as well, which is why I agreed with you.

[Monty]

Gareth,

Oh yes, still stand by that view.

Monty