Mary Kellys husband

[Darryl Kenyon]

Apologies if this has been brought up before
Name: John Davies
Birth Year: abt 1855
Event Type: Death
Event Year: 1881
Death Age: 26
Death Date: 29 Aug 1881
Death Place: Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales
Occupation: Collier
Colliery: Bargoed Longwork
Owner: Dowlais Iron Co
Notes: Killed by an explosion of firedamp.



I note that he was a collier and died in an explosion in Wales as MJK said her husband did to Joe Barnett. Also if she did marry when she was sixteen as she said, 1889, and lived with him for two or three years before he died then it would be around the right time. She would have been 18 at the time, so 26 might be a tad too old for her husband, him being 23 or 4 when they married, but not out of the question. Again apologies if anyone else as posted this info before.

[Wickerman]

I don't recall anyone mentioning that record before, though plenty have looked for this man.
Do you mind me asking the source, was it ancestry.com or something similar?

Have you looked up Dowlais, or nearby Merthyr Tydfil for a marriage certificate?

[Darryl Kenyon]

I don't recall anyone mentioning that record before, though plenty have looked for this man.
Do you mind me asking the source, was it ancestry.com or something similar?

Have you looked up Dowlais, or nearby Merthyr Tydfil for a marriage certificate?

Hello Wickerman,I found it in this - Web UK, Coal Mining Accidents and Deaths Index, 1700-1950.
I did try, quickly, bit busy last night for a marriage certificate but without much success. Perhaps somebody with better resources than me might unearth something. Ps All the Marys i found married to a John Davies seem to have children.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Just found a John Davies 24 years old, so right age who married a Mary Jarman in Merthyr Tydfil on March 23 1878, so around the right time for Mary to be sixteen. Also this Mary's father is called John as Mary said. Interesting. Unfortunately Jarman seems to of English origin surname rather than Irish.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Finally Dowlais and Merthyr Tydfil, although not in Carmarthenshire are not too far away either

[John Malcolm]

A couple of starting points in the search for Davies or Davis in mining accidents:

http://welshcoalmines.co.uk/DisastersList.htm

http://www.dmm.org.uk/names/d1880-89.htm

At least 33 Davies as well as at least 8 Davis, but only a few that might be a decent fit.

Also, if you can find a copy of the late Chris Scott's Will the Real Mary Kelly...?, it's a gem. I'm sure there are ongoing attempts to further this research, but I'm not up to speed. There was a James Davies, 18, who died at the Risca colliery on 16th July, 1880. He's probably been looked into and ruled out, but that's just another example.

[Pcdunn]

Twenty-six is not too old at all, Darryl, as Victorian men often married much younger women. I seen it often in my own family history research.

[GUT]

Twenty-six is not too old at all, Darryl, as Victorian men often married much younger women. I seen it often in my own family history research.

My great grand Ma was 15 (born 1888) he was almost 30.

[Wickerman]

South Wales Daily News, 1 Sept. 1881.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Hi Wickerman, Yes i think this John Davies went under the radar a little because he was the only fatality in the explosion. Here is some info i found
Mary Jarman
mentioned in the record of John Davies and Mary Jarman
Name John Davies
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 23 Mar 1878
Event Place Merthyr Tydfil, Cyfartha, Glamorgan, Wales
Gender Male
Age 24y
Marital Status Single
Father's Name John Davies
Spouse's Name Mary Jarman
Spouse's Marital Status Single
Spouse's Father's Name John Jarman Unfortunately this Mary Jarman was 20 or 21 when she married. Two things really, did Mary lie about her age to, say impress suitors etc or did she lie when she married because you had to have consent off your parents until you where 21. What's more frustrating though is there is no record of a Mary or John Jarman in limerick as far as i can tell, maybe they changed their surname when they came to Wales ? Finally i have found a Mary Jarman, Father John, who was born in 1858 in another part of Wales who could be the same one. Although there are quite a few Jarmans for the relevent period. Of course this might not be the marriage of the John Davies who died in the explosion since Davies is quite a common Welsh surname.

[Darryl Kenyon]

Just Found this Name Mary Kelly
Event Type Marriage
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year 1878
Registration District Merthyr Tydfil
County Glamorganshire
Event Place Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorganshire, Wales
Volume 11A
Page 341
Line Number 119 Unfortunately it doesn't say who she married

[PaulWilliams]

Hi Darryl,

Some time ago I went through all the marriages of Mary Kelly or close derivatives in Wales during the relevant period. My findings were summarised in an article in Ripperologist 149.
This Mary Kelly married Michael Flynn, a 36 year-old farm labourer on 17 June 1878. Mary was aged 30, and her father was a tailor called Daniel. Both the married couple were illiterate. I found an entry in the 1861 census that probably related to her living in Neath, and discounted her as the Ripper victim on the grounds of age.
Best wishes,
Paul

[Darryl Kenyon]

Thanks Paul Will catch up on the article

[Sam Flynn]

Finally Dowlais and Merthyr Tydfil, although not in Carmarthenshire are not too far away either

They are rather far in Welsh terms, though - about 70 miles... yikes!

However, Dowlais and Merthyer are both only about 15 miles from Cwmavon (in the Borough of Torfaen), which is what I suspect Mary Kelly may have said, and which Joe Barnett misheard as "Carmarthen" or "Caernarvon". All three are pronounced similarly by folks from South Wales (C'maah-vun, C'maah-thun ["th" as in "the"] and C'naah-vun).

[Wickerman]

It's considerably nearer to Cardiff too, for that part of her story.
The Cardiff infirmary records might have had a Jarman listed, not a Davies. Chris Scott looked for a Davis/Davies, if I'm not mistaken.