Mary Kellys husband

[miss marple]

That will be Castletown Limerick.

miss marple

[Callmebill]

Mary

Apologies in advance, i'm writing on my phone - need a telescope.
Anyway, tidying my files and I came across research on Mary and I Googled Mary Kelly with Cwybargoed - of course I landed on this site.
Read through this whole thread. John Davies who died in 1881 and born 1855:
On my notes I have his address it's 18 Lewis Street from the inquiry into his death. At that address he is listed as born Llandovery, ...Carmarthenshire. His wife was called Margaret and was 23 when he died.
They had two boys, David and Howell who isn't living with his mother in the 1891 census not too sure of David. In the house are two Irish lodgers one of which comes from Catletown...limerick.
Cymbargoed also had an ironworks but it's also close to Cardiff.
Just one more snippet in my notes I've written. Margaret Leyshon - 7 brothers-Henry , a sister and a father called John - nothing ekse on it and that info I must have dumped for some reason.
Lastly there's a John Sheen working at the ironworks, that name's familiar to people studying Pearly.
That's it I think. Still that's only the first folder sorted ...

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Flower and Dean!


Well, if we suppose Mary was using 'Mary Jane Kelly' as a pseudonyme - probably I am not the only one here thinking like that! - it is bloody hard to track down her Irish and Welsh life.

It doesn't make the task easier either, that there were obviously many other Mary Kellies in the East End too at the time.

All the best
Jukka

[SuspectZero]

Apologies if this has been brought up before
Name: John Davies
Birth Year: abt 1855
Event Type: Death
Event Year: 1881
Death Age: 26
Death Date: 29 Aug 1881
Death Place: Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales
Occupation: Collier
Colliery: Bargoed Longwork
Owner: Dowlais Iron Co
Notes: Killed by an explosion of firedamp.



I note that he was a collier and died in an explosion in Wales as MJK said her husband did to Joe Barnett. Also if she did marry when she was sixteen as she said, 1889, and lived with him for two or three years before he died then it would be around the right time. She would have been 18 at the time, so 26 might be a tad too old for her husband, him being 23 or 4 when they married, but not out of the question. Again apologies if anyone else as posted this info before.

Nope. Not your guy. This has been searched for years...
Name: John Davies
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Catherine Davies
Gender: Male
Where born: Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales
Civil Parish: Aberdare
County/Island: Glamorgan
Country: Wales
Street address: 87 Wind St Four ... Inn
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: Collier & Innkeeper
Registration district: Merthyr Tydfil
Sub registration district: Aberdare
ED, institution, or vessel: 28
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 5323
Folio: 11
Page Number: 18
Household Members:
Name Age
John Davies 26
Catherine Davies 23
Llewellyn Davies

[MysterySinger]

deleted

[Bridewell]

They are rather far in Welsh terms, though - about 70 miles... yikes!

However, Dowlais and Merthyer are both only about 15 miles from Cwmavon (in the Borough of Torfaen), which is what I suspect Mary Kelly may have said, and which Joe Barnett misheard as "Carmarthen" or "Caernarvon". All three are pronounced similarly by folks from South Wales (C'maah-vun, C'maah-thun ["th" as in "the"] and C'naah-vun).

Very interesting stuff. Clearly the occupants of this area need closer scrutiny.

[Bridewell]

Apologies if this has been brought up before
Name: John Davies
Birth Year: abt 1855
Event Type: Death
Event Year: 1881
Death Age: 26
Death Date: 29 Aug 1881
Death Place: Dowlais, Glamorgan, Wales
Occupation: Collier
Colliery: Bargoed Longwork
Owner: Dowlais Iron Co
Notes: Killed by an explosion of firedamp.



I note that he was a collier and died in an explosion in Wales as MJK said her husband did to Joe Barnett. Also if she did marry when she was sixteen as she said, 1889, and lived with him for two or three years before he died then it would be around the right time. She would have been 18 at the time, so 26 might be a tad too old for her husband, him being 23 or 4 when they married, but not out of the question. Again apologies if anyone else as posted this info before.

This is interesting because a couple of weeks ago I was in PM conversation with Caz about a Mary Davis whose father was a Foreman in an Iron Works in the 1891 census. This family was from Dowlais too, though the father's name was David, not John.

[Flower and Dean]

I tried looking for MJK's husband a while ago too and found the Davies who married a Mary Jarman. I don't think that's them, even if Jarman's age would fit. Jarman doesn't seem to be an especially Irish last name and it seems too specific and unusual for an alias.

[Wickerman]

It's considerably nearer to Cardiff too, for that part of her story.
The Cardiff infirmary records might have had a Jarman listed, not a Davies. Chris Scott looked for a Davis/Davies, if I'm not mistaken.

[Sam Flynn]

Finally Dowlais and Merthyr Tydfil, although not in Carmarthenshire are not too far away either

They are rather far in Welsh terms, though - about 70 miles... yikes!

However, Dowlais and Merthyer are both only about 15 miles from Cwmavon (in the Borough of Torfaen), which is what I suspect Mary Kelly may have said, and which Joe Barnett misheard as "Carmarthen" or "Caernarvon". All three are pronounced similarly by folks from South Wales (C'maah-vun, C'maah-thun ["th" as in "the"] and C'naah-vun).

[Darryl Kenyon]

Thanks Paul Will catch up on the article

[PaulWilliams]

Hi Darryl,

Some time ago I went through all the marriages of Mary Kelly or close derivatives in Wales during the relevant period. My findings were summarised in an article in Ripperologist 149.
This Mary Kelly married Michael Flynn, a 36 year-old farm labourer on 17 June 1878. Mary was aged 30, and her father was a tailor called Daniel. Both the married couple were illiterate. I found an entry in the 1861 census that probably related to her living in Neath, and discounted her as the Ripper victim on the grounds of age.
Best wishes,
Paul

[Darryl Kenyon]

Just Found this Name Mary Kelly
Event Type Marriage
Registration Quarter Apr-May-Jun
Registration Year 1878
Registration District Merthyr Tydfil
County Glamorganshire
Event Place Merthyr Tydfil, Glamorganshire, Wales
Volume 11A
Page 341
Line Number 119 Unfortunately it doesn't say who she married

[Darryl Kenyon]

Hi Wickerman, Yes i think this John Davies went under the radar a little because he was the only fatality in the explosion. Here is some info i found
Mary Jarman
mentioned in the record of John Davies and Mary Jarman
Name John Davies
Event Type Marriage
Event Date 23 Mar 1878
Event Place Merthyr Tydfil, Cyfartha, Glamorgan, Wales
Gender Male
Age 24y
Marital Status Single
Father's Name John Davies
Spouse's Name Mary Jarman
Spouse's Marital Status Single
Spouse's Father's Name John Jarman Unfortunately this Mary Jarman was 20 or 21 when she married. Two things really, did Mary lie about her age to, say impress suitors etc or did she lie when she married because you had to have consent off your parents until you where 21. What's more frustrating though is there is no record of a Mary or John Jarman in limerick as far as i can tell, maybe they changed their surname when they came to Wales ? Finally i have found a Mary Jarman, Father John, who was born in 1858 in another part of Wales who could be the same one. Although there are quite a few Jarmans for the relevent period. Of course this might not be the marriage of the John Davies who died in the explosion since Davies is quite a common Welsh surname.

[Wickerman]

South Wales Daily News, 1 Sept. 1881.