was Nichols murdered where found?

[Lechmere]

The other policeman he saw was probably Thain, skiving off to drop his cape - away from his beat.
He only saw Neil Once in two hours even though the beat was 30 minutes duration. Although mulshaw was on Winthrop street and so off neil's direct beat, Neil was expected to inspect the turnings off his route as well. So was Neil being slack in not going down Winthrop street more often or was mulshaw snoozing when he did?

[Mr Lucky]

The other policeman he saw was probably Thain, skiving off to drop his cape - away from his beat.

Thain was at the inquest that day, but did'nt stand up to be identified like Neil, but he had a legitimate reason to have left his beat and be on Winthrop street (fetching the doctor, if he did choose that route) so why didn't he stand up?

It could also be Sg Kirby or the beat policeman from pre 10 o'clock, if that's when Neil started his shift.

He only saw Neil Once in two hours even though the beat was 30 minutes duration. Although mulshaw was on Winthrop street and so off neil's direct beat, Neil was expected to inspect the turnings off his route as well. So was Neil being slack in not going down Winthrop street more often or was mulshaw snoozing when he did?

I had been lead to believe that Winthrop Street was Neils beat, he claimed to have seen the slaughtermen at around 3.15?

As I have mentioned elsewhere, Mulshaw shift was Thirteen hours, surely he can't be a sleep for more than eight of them?

[Lechmere]

Yes I guess it Could have been someone other than THain - yet I doubt Thain would have stood up if the time he saw mulshaw was when he was skiving off to the butchers. He denied seeing them, as clearly despite whatever some might think today, at the time Thain was clearly sensitive to being accused of skiving off. To get to llewellyn's he shims have hone straight east down bucks row and then right down beady street - but he must have gone west, round the school and down Winthrop street past mulshaw. Maybe mulshaw missed him. Would mulshaw have recognised him again, in the dark.
Incidentally Neil was supposed to chat to night-watchmen on his beat - how come he didn't know mulshaw?

[Monty]

Its not what Mulshaw saw....its why he was there.

Monty

[Simon Wood]

Hi Monty,

Sewage works, apparently.

Regards,

Simon

[Lechmere]

It works for me!

[Monty]

And there it is Simon.

Far more valid reason for gas failure than Rail works.

Monty

[Simon Wood]

Hi Monty,

There's a joke in there somewhere, but if I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

Regards,

Simon

[Mr Lucky]

And there it is Simon.

Far more valid reason for gas failure than Rail works.

Monty

Mulshaw, in Winthrop Street, has caused a 'gas failure' in Buck's Row?

Why would that happen?

[Monty]

Mulshaw, in Winthrop Street, has caused a 'gas failure' in Buck's Row?

Why would that happen?

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Mulshaw caused a gas failure.

Monty

[Bridewell]

Skiving

The other policeman he saw was probably Thain, skiving off to drop his cape - away from his beat.

From report of Thain's evidence in The Times, 18th September 1888:

"He did not take his cape to the slaughterhouse, but sent it by a brother constable".

So not skiving then.

He only saw Neil Once in two hours even though the beat was 30 minutes duration. Although mulshaw was on Winthrop street and so off neil's direct beat, Neil was expected to inspect the turnings off his route as well. So was Neil being slack in not going down Winthrop street more often or was mulshaw snoozing when he did?

From report of Mulshaw's evidence in same edition:

"He dozed at times during the night"

Sounds like snoozing to me (So, once again, no evidence of skiving by Thain)

We're seeing a lot of allegations of skiving,but not a lot of supporting evidence.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Phil H]

We're seeing a lot of allegations of skiving,but not a lot of supporting evidence.

I suspect that a boring job like a night-watchman must have been brain-numbing 364 days our of 365. The fact that they kept out of the way and snoozed is hardly surprising to me.

The problem comes when - at a time when they should have been alert - they realise they have missed something. Do they own up and say "I was sleeping", or just say "I dozed a bit"?

I don't think it's skiving, but what in the Uk are sometimes referred to as "old Spanish customs" can be endemic in any profession or line of work. Most of the time no one cares - then something unexpected happens and embarrassing questions get asked.

I think many were caught out in the aftermath of Polly's murder.

Phil H

[Lechmere]

I was going from memory - but yes Thain said a brother officer had dropped his cape - almost certainly because he didn't want to admit to diverting from his beat on such a night.
Horse slaughterman Tomkins said Thain told him about the murder and Tomkins was at the crime scene when Thain reappeared with Dr Llewellyn. It is obvious that Thain detoured on his way to get LLewellyn, stopped in at the slaughter yard (possibly to retrieve his cape - hence my confusion) to tell the three horse slaughterers his hot gossip. This involved quite a big detour on his way to Llewellyn.
As a result of his irregular slaughter house yard visits, Thain felt compelled to deny going anywhere near the yard hence the 'brother officer' bit and his contradiction of Tomkins.
If he was not skiving then why did Thain feel compelled to lie?
Conclusion - Thain was skiving.

[Mr Lucky]

Hi Lechmere,

Thought this may be of some use.

Which Gas companies supplied Whitechapel/London

THE PRICE OF GAS.- The board of Trade, upon application of the Gaslight and Coke Company, under the provisions of the City of London Gas Act, 1868, for a revision of the scale of illuminating power and price of the gas supplied by the company, have appointed Mr. Francis Savage Reilly, barrister-at-law, Mr. William Odling F.R.S, and Mr. William Pollard Pattison, actuary, to be commissioners for the purposes of such revision. - The Morning Post 13 February 1873

‘In response to a requisition from the Paddington vestry to oppose the Imperial Gas Company demand for increased rates, the board of works has instructed its gas examiner to report on the price and illuminating power of the various kinds of gas supplied to the metropolis’ - The London Standard 20 December 1873

The City of London Gas Act 1868 might be worth a look, there was an attempt to pass another act in 1875 which would have fixed the gas price at 3s 9d per 1000 foot at 16 candle power, which may have been as a result of these types of inquiries above.

-----------

Locations of the Gas Works,

Stanford’s library map of London 1872, shows several gas works that appear to be close enough to supply Buck’s row with gas in regard to the 1873 Map, including ;-

1) East of Kingsland Road and south of the canal, ‘Independent gas works’

2) East of Great Cambridge street and south of the canal, a large ‘Imperial Gas Works’

3) East of Emma street, and south of the canal, another ‘Imperial Gas Works’

4) East of Ben Johnson fields, - a ‘Commercial Gas Works’

5) North of Pear tree street, - a ‘Chartered Gas Works’

----------------

General quality of lights in Whitechapel 1888

An unnamed police inspector claimed -

‘Again and again appeal was made that something should be done for their greater safety, and the general anxiety and sense of insecurity must unquestionably have been greatly intensified by the unsatisfactory lighting of the streets. “When this public-house is shut up,” said the police inspector, “how could I possibly make out anything going on a few yards off.” The Lamps, it may be, are not too far apart, but they are feeble flickering things wholly behind the times.’ - Daily News 6th Oct 1888

Sir Charles Warren -

‘I have to request and call upon your Board, as popular representatives, to do all in your power to dissuade the unfortunate women about Whitechapel from going into lonely places in the dark with any persons, whether acquaintances or strangers. I have to point out that the purlieus about Whitechapel are most imperfectly lighted, and the darkness is an important assistant to crime’ - Charles Warren, 3 October 1888, in reply to a letter from the Clerk for the Board of works, Whitechapel district

Best Wishes

[Mr Lucky]

Also, reporting unlit lamps -

It appears that the police constables reporting unlit or extinguished street lights can be due to either mischief or substandard gas supply/quality.

‘George Roots, 26 , a fishmonger, of Jermyn-street, was charged with extinguishing public street lamps to the common danger of the public.- Police-constable 351C said that about half-past one o’clock yesterday morning he was in York-street, and saw the prisoner place a ladder against a lamp post, mount it, and extinguish the light. Directly he caught sight of him (the constable) he jumped off the ladder and ran away, being eventually stopped by a private person. He had obtained the ladder from Mason’s-yard, and offered him a sovereign to let him go. No fewer than eight lamps had been turned out in the neighbourhood. - The prisoner, in his defence, denied that he turned the gas off in any but one lamp. He said he had parted with some friends, and wanted a light for his cigar. He brought the ladder to the lamp, and knowing that he was doing wrong he ran away when the constable appeared. He had been drinking. - Mr Newton told him that a man in his position ought to know better. He had been guilty of a very bad offence, and must pay 20s., or go to prison for 14 days.’ -The Morning Post 28 December 1887

Note - a sovereign is worth 20s

THE STREET LAMPS.- As a specimen of the imperfect condition of the gas supply, we may say that last night - and, of course, it is the same every night - no less than forty lamps in different parts of the town were reported to Mr. Superintendent Oglethorpe by his officers, as being altogether extinguished by naphthalene, or so far reduced in amount of light as to be practically useless.’ - Preston Chronicle and Lancashire advertiser 28 Sept. 1878