Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Jack the Chipper

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Jack the Chipper

    Just a quick question....on google maps there's an old looking building on the corner of osborn street and Whitechapel High Street. It appears to be Victorian in style and has the name Jack The Chipper...fish and chips shops. Does anyone know if this was the place outside which Polly Ann Nichols was last seen alive before she walked eastwards down Whitechapel road? does anyone know what this building used to be back in 1888? Aldgate East underground station is only a few yards away from jack the chipper and I'd also like to know if this station also existed back then?

  • #2
    Are you sure it's not 'Jack the Clipper'? There's a chain of barber shops in the area which distastefully use this name and I think the local fish and chips is ably served by Poppies and Happy Days.

    Comment


    • #3
      No, you are right it is 'Jack the Chipper'. That must have opened recently. So now the area proudly boasts 'Jack the Clipper' and 'Jack the Chipper'. Somewhat depressing.

      Comment


      • #4
        The building is at 74 Whitechapel High Street.

        74 Whitechapel High Street is listed in The Post-Office Annual Directory of 1814 as 'Monk W M, Boot and Shoe maker' -https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...eet%22&f=false

        It is again listed in Kelly's Post Office London Directory for 1891 as 'S W Krouman, Chima & Son, Boot makers' - https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...man%22&f=false

        Perhaps showing continual use for shoe and boot making through most of the 19th century? Although today there is Jack the Chipper on the site and flats above so perhaps the site had multiple uses?

        Curiously Kelly's Post Office London Directory for 1891 has another entry for 74 Whitechapel High Street. 'Paddon Thomas, carpet warehouse' - https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...carpet&f=false

        The place appears to have been photographed in 1890. I can't quite make out the name above the shop but could it be 'T Paddon'?

        Click image for larger version

Name:	736d249f819ca00c77a99fdfb2322383.jpg
Views:	154
Size:	79.5 KB
ID:	737373

        According to the casebook entry on Polly https://www.casebook.org/victims/polly.html the shop Polly was seen at was a grocer's shop:

        2:30 AM -- She meets Emily Holland, who was returning from watching the Shadwell Dry Dock fire, outside of a grocer's shop on the corner of Whitechapel Road and Osborn Street. Polly had come down Osborn Street. Holland describes her as "very drunk and staggered against the wall."
        So no, I don't think that was the place. The shop on the other corner looks like it might be a grocer's shop?

        Comment


        • #5
          Click image for larger version

Name:	st-botolph-without-aldgate-28.jpg
Views:	175
Size:	87.1 KB
ID:	737375 Top hatted skeleton. Classy.
          Old age killed my teenage bride.

          Comment


          • #6
            Was Thomas Paddon already in the premises in 1888, I wonder? Well, yes it seems likely.

            His address is given as 74 Whitechapel High Street in The London Gazette dated November the 1st 1887, where the death of his father Thomas Paddon the Elder is announced:
            https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/.../5840/data.pdf

            N OTICE is hereby given, that all creditors and other persons having any debts,- claims, or demands against the estate of Thomas Paddon the elder, late of Grove House, Thornhill-road, Leyton, Essex, Gentleman (who died on the 5th day of September, 1887, and whose will was proved in the Principal Registry of the Probate Division of Her Majesty's High Court of Justice by Thomas Paddon (heretofore the younger), of No. 74, Whitechapel'High-street, Middlesex, Carpet and Furnishing Warehouseman
            Survey of London has a history of the building and Thomas Paddon is mentioned as having owned the premises from 1859 to 1899. https://surveyoflondon.org/map/feature/313/detail/

            So the shop probably looked somewhat similar to the way it does in the picture in 1888.
            Last edited by seanr; 07-12-2020, 05:45 PM. Reason: To add the detail from Survey of London without doing yet another post.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by seanr View Post
              So no, I don't think that was the place. The shop on the other corner looks like it might be a grocer's shop?
              The building on the other side of the road is gone today. The area was a bombed in the Second World War and the building that stands there today was built at the end of the 1950's: https://surveyoflondon.org/map/feature/125/detail/ - an Efes Turkish restaurant inhabits the site today. The site is listed as covering 1 Whitechapel Road and 2 - 8 Osborn Street.

              As this side of the road is Whitechapel Road rather than Whitechapel High Street, it may fit the description of the grocer's shop better.

              The Jack the Ripper Sourcebook includes a petition to the Home Secretary from the Whitechapel traders which includes signatures as printed (from here: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...20road&f=false) from 'Thomas [] 74 High Street Whitechapel' (this is probably Thomas Paddon) and a 'Franklin S 1 Whitechapel Road'.

              Kelly's Post Office London Directory for 1891 lists a Solomon Franklin, bootmaker at 1 Whitechapel Road. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...olomon&f=false He seems to be our S Franklin.

              He also seems to be the S Franklin who sued Alexander McCrindle of Glasgow for debt in 1884 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/Edinbur...e/303/data.pdf

              I think this is him in the 1891 census at 1 Whitechapel Road, but not Solomon Franklin but Franklin Solomon. http://www.census1891.com/viewhouse....d=169&did=3691
              1 I Franklin Solomon H M 50 M Boot Manufacturer Er Poland (Naturalised British Subject)
              So, the other shop has a boot manufacturer and wholesaler living and working there.

              So this leaves a mystery, where is the grocer's shop?

              Comment


              • #8
                seanr thank you so much for flushing out more details! :-)

                Comment


                • #9
                  In attempt to find our grocer's shop, I checked out the properties around the corner of Osborne Street.

                  At 2 Whitechapel Road, Kelly's Post Office Directory for 1891 has a Thomas Bullock running a public house called the 'Angel and Crown' - https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...oad%22&f=false

                  The 1891 census has Thomas Bullock running the St Mary's Distillery public house on this site.
                  Microfiche number RG12/279, Page 238, 2 Whitechapel Road, Whitechapel, St. Marys Distillery Public House
                  2 I Thomas Bullock H M 36 M Licensed Victualler Er London, Middlesex
                  The Angel and Crown had perhaps changed it's name to capitalise on it's proximity to St Mary's underground station which had opened in 1884. Aldgate East had also opened in 1884 but it wasn't close to here until it increased in size and moved truly subterranean in 1938, at which time the east exit was so close to St Mary's that the other station closed.
                  So much for number 2 Whitechapel Road.

                  OK, maybe 73 Whitechapel High Street. I can't find an entry for it in Kelly's Post Office Directory but a Robert Rycroft, Draper and family is listed as living there in the 1891 census http://www.census1891.com/viewhouse....d=211&did=4595:
                  Microfiche number RG12/280, Page 130, 73 High Street, Whitechapel,
                  19 I Robert Rycroft H M 53 M Draper Er Lincolnshire
                  This probably the same person as Robt. Rycroft the first person to sign the petition from Whitechapel Traders to the Home Secretary: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...ycroft&f=false
                  His address in that letter is given as 79 Whitechapel High Street. 79 listed as demolished in the 1891 census: http://www.census1891.com/viewhouse....d=211&did=4593

                  Robt. Rycroft was the first person to sign the petition to the Home Secretary and Thomas [] (probably Thomas Paddon) was the second. So perhaps they knew each-other and worked closely together. Maybe they even organised the petition.

                  Maybe Robert Rycroft, draper already had an interest at 73 Whitechapel High Street in 1888. Perhaps he ran it as a grocers shop. It seems pretty unlikely second business to run a grocer's shop for a draper though.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Scratch that... the shop next to 74 Whitechapel High Street was number 75 not 73. Seems the numbering on that side of the road is 74, 75, 76. See https://www.google.com/maps/place/75...3!4d-0.0699529

                    Who ran a business from number 75?

                    According to Kelly's PO Directory, a Robert Rycroft, linendraper. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...ycroft&f=false

                    Still no grocer's shop.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      The underground station was named after St Mary's Church which stood on the site where Altab Ali park is today on Whitechapel Road. The church was destroyed by bombing in WW2.

                      Kelly's Directory has a William Tulloch, grocer at 72 Whitechapel High Street. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...eet%22&f=false

                      I can't find a 72 or 73 Whitechapel High Street today, the opposite side of the road seems to stop at 71. There is a little triangle of land at the corner of White Church Lane and Whitechapel High Street on older maps. Did 72 and 73 stand here?

                      The petition to the Home Secretary includes a signature from a G Hamilton of 72 Whitechapel High Street.

                      Is this our grocer's shop? Did Polly cross to the opposite side of Whitechapel High Street to speak with Emily Holland? Has everyone who referenced the picture included above showing T Paddon's carpet warehouse been staring at the wrong side of the road?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        The Goad insurance map from 1890 shows a grocery store on the corner of Osborne Street, at 1 Whitchapel Road.

                        This is the site of today's turkish restaurant


                        Click image for larger version  Name:	_20200713_113304.JPG Views:	0 Size:	80.9 KB ID:	737409
                        Last edited by Joshua Rogan; 07-13-2020, 10:49 AM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Joshua Rogan View Post
                          The Goad insurance map from 1890 shows a grocery store on the corner of Osborne Street, at 1 Whitchapel Road.

                          This is the site of today's turkish restaurant


                          Click image for larger version Name:	_20200713_113304.JPG Views:	0 Size:	80.9 KB ID:	737409
                          So, this confused me. In that there is definitely Franklin Solomon, boot manufacturer living at 1 Whitechapel Road in the census. Also the address of Angel and Crown / St Mary's distillery is very definitely given as 2 Whitechapel Road. The P.H for public house appears at number 3 on the Goad's map. What's going on?

                          The Turkish restaurant may have the address 1 Whitechapel Road today but this wasn't 1 Whitechapel Road in 1890. A clue comes from a fictionalised but based on real history novel giving an imaginative description of Feldman's Post Office at 1 Whitechapel Road. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...chapel&f=false

                          Was Feldman's Post Office a real place? Yes, it seems it was held in some regard by the local Jewish community, enough for the site to be included in tours of Radical Judaism's East End: https://www.timeout.com/london/thing...k-for-hanukkah

                          Why can't it be found in Kelly's Post Office Directory? A clue comes from a biography of Philip Blackman contained within a Southampton university research paper - https://eprints.soton.ac.uk/401670/1...20E-Thesis.pdf

                          It is understood, according to Vivienne Press, his grand-daughter, that Philip [Blackman] maintained a regular correspondence with his brother Nathan who, nine years his senior, had emigrated to Canada. Quite probably this correspondence led to Philip visiting Feldman’s Post Office and meeting the woman who eventually became his wife, Cissy Danzig who was the half sister of Isaac Feldman’s wife and lived with them. When Phillip and Cissy married on 24 February 1907 both gave their address as 1 Osborn Street, the location of Feldman’s at the junction with Whitechapel High Street.
                          Searching Kelly's Post Office Directory again looking directly for Feldman, he is there but as Feldman Isaac & Co. Shipping agents, 2 Osborn Street. https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...eldman&f=false

                          I can't find the entry in the 1891 census on line but according to this summary the entry *is* there to be found. http://www.census1891.com/rg12-279.php

                          Corner of Osborn Street and Whitechapel Road - Feldman's Post Office. His brother Israel was a GP in upstairs rooms
                          The grocery shop outside which Emily Holland became the last person known to have seen Polly Nichols alive was almost certainly Feldman's Post Office.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Perhaps interestingly, no-one named Feldman decided to sign the petition to the Home Secretary from the Whitechapel traders. I wonder if he wasn't asked or if he declined?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by seanr View Post
                              Perhaps interestingly, no-one named Feldman decided to sign the petition to the Home Secretary from the Whitechapel traders. I wonder if he wasn't asked or if he declined?
                              Perhaps the post office had yet to be founded? Later maps do show a PO on the corner site, certainly by 1895. Given the vibrant nature and rapid rate of change in the area, it's certainly possible that the grocer in 1888 later became a boot maker and then post office in the next few years.

                              I can't find any info myself on when the PO opened, but extrapolating from a bio of the son of Feldman's brother Israel (who was a GP above the PO, apparently) the family may not have arrived in England until after the events in question.

                              https://history.rcplondon.ac.uk/insp...-moses-feldman

                              ie born Nov 1880
                              "came to England when he was eight years old"

                              Here is the 1899 Goad map;

                              Click image for larger version

Name:	_20200714_102545.JPG
Views:	76
Size:	89.0 KB
ID:	737437

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X