Was Polly moved to Bucks Row ?

[halomanuk]

Regarding the theory that Polly was killed elsewhere and placed in Bucks Row,does anybody have any opinions on this at the moment ?

If we go by the C5 list then,if Polly was killed in Bucks Row, then it does seem to be the most public place where the murderer could have been seen at any time by passers by on their way to work,hence when her body was found it was still warm,so it was as close as it was.

1.Annie Chapman,a back yard - off the street,enclosed.
2.Catharine Eddowes - the dark corner of Mitre Square and at an indecent hour,and fairly enclosed.
3.Liz Stride - in a yard,still enclosed.
4.Mary Kelly - in her home,once again enclosed.

It makes me wonder if Polly was killed,once more,in an enclosed area,and brought to Bucks Row to be found.

Any thoughts ?

[Sam Flynn]

Slashing a woman's abdomen and legging it sounds a whole lot less risky than carrying a corpse with its head hanging off and great slashes in its abdomen.

If she'd have been killed elsewhere, most of the blood would have drained out en route. As it is, there was sufficient blood found soaking Polly's hair and the back of her dress to demonstrate that she'd been killed on the spot.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Halo [or may I call you Simon?]

Read my article "Deconstructing Jack" in Ripperologist 90.

See what you think.

Regards,

[The real] Simon

[Eastender]

An old Aunt of mine told me it was common knowledge that Polly was attacked in Hanbury Street on the night of her death. She never changed this story no matter how many times we tried to catch her out. As she lived in Whitechapel all her life I imagine there may be an element of truth in this story. If she was right, then it puts Hanbury Street in a very different light.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
I have never heard of the belief that Nichols was initially attacked in Hanbury street, if she were she came a fair way before dropping.
I do believe however that she was attacked in Brady street, although oral history is of course unreliable, and i am of the belief, that who ever attacked her , was either very intoxicated, or had some form of disability, that made him very unsteady on his feet.
Which incidently may have been the person known as Broadshoulders in Berner street.
Regards Richard.

[Jon Guy]

I do believe however that she was attacked in Brady street, although oral history is of course unreliable, and i am of the belief, that who ever attacked her , was either very intoxicated, or had some form of disability, that made him very unsteady on his feet.

Hi Richard

Wasn`t the incident in Brady St a domestic that was reported by Mrs Colville who heard banging on doors during the night. If, by the "unsteady on his feet" reference you are alluding to the zig zag trail of blood in the street, was this not due to a man was carrying the victim of the said domestic to the Hospital ?

There was a few people with a dodgy gait wasn`t there ? There was the man in the bar seen by Mrs Fiddymont on the morning of the Chapman murder who had a peculiar springy step, there was BS Man and that chap Thomas Eade saw on the Cambridge Heath Road.

[halomanuk]

Hi Halo [or may I call you Simon?]

Read my article "Deconstructing Jack" in Ripperologist 90.

See what you think.

Regards,

[The real] Simon

I will stick with Barry,wouldn't want to intrude on the original Simon .

Thanks for the article advice i will look at that for sure.

All the best as always matey,

[richardnunweek]

Hi Jon.
Yes Mrs Colville was one witness, i believe one person heard what she thought was a woman being attacked in Brady street, and the sound of running footsteps.
Was there not another[ name escapes me], who was awoken by her young daughter, saying 'Mummy someone is trying to open our door' the mother heard a woman mutter 'Help Murder' she appeared in distress, and very short of breath, after a few moments the woman seemed to be going away, as her cries got fainter.
And in Bucks row another woman heard a breathless woman, around 330am, who appeared to be being struck at, although a passing train drained any futher noise.
All of this is 'Oral history' , but can we discount all of it?
My remarks on her attacker mayby being intoxicated, or unsteady, is taking witnesses at their word, it is possible that the murderers rfeactions were not quick enough to contain Nichols initially, and it was only when she ran out of energy that he caught up with her in Bucks Row.
The mother and daughter account i would tend to believe, as it involves two people, and less likely to have been invented.
Regards Richard.

[Jon Guy]

Mrs Colville was the woman with the kids on Brady St who heard the kerfuffle, and it was Mrs Lilley who lived near the new cottage on Bucks Row who heard noises at about 3.30. Both press reports.

It must be noted that in Lilley`s case, that although she does not appear to be interviewed by Police, Wynne Baxter chastised John Spratling at the inquest for not interviewing everyone in Bucks Row that morning. There is good reason to believe she heard the attack, and some whispering which may have been Cross and Paul.

Polly was extremely drunk when her friend Mrs Holland saw her near St Mary`s on Whitechapel Rd, she could barely stand and was walking away from Hanbury St. I don`t think Polly would have run very far, especially in those skirts and boots!!!

[richardnunweek]

Hi Jon
You are right about Nichols intoxication, and are correct in pointing out that she was unlikely to move very fast, which would suggest that the killer if initially attacking her in Brady street, was either also drunk, so much so, he could not stop her getting away at his first attempt.
The form book does indicate that she may have escaped her killers clutches at least temporary, but he caught up with her in Bucks Row.
Regards Richard.

[Scott Nelson]

No. She was too heavy and there wasn't time. She was killed where she was found.

[Robert]

Jack didn't do Feng Shui.

[perrymason]

Even if she was accosted somewhere first and that led to the fatal attack in Bucks Row, the thread question would be dealt with,....she was killed where she was found. Like all the other Canonicals.

Bucks Row had disadvantages and advantages, it was an open ended street, unless someone comes down from both directions,...he had an out. He had an out in Hanbury...over the fence if need be, or if seen by a neighbor, back through the house. Dutfield's Yard had the gates and the side door to the club, Mitre Square had 3 possible escape routes, 2 of which he might use if someone came in one of them,...and in Millers Court, he has 1 exit.

The most time consuming and vicious murder of all 5...and he does it with his back to the windows and door, with only a single exit available.

Best regards all.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Mike,

The most time consuming and vicious murder of all 5...and he does it with his back to the windows and door, with only a single exit available.

1. That was largely true of the Hanbury Street murder;

2. This is neither a Mary Kelly nor an Annie Chapman thread;

Edit: It's not even about the layouts and relative advantages/disadvantages of the murder sites in general, come to think of it. It's just about whether Polly was killed elsewhere or not.

[perrymason]

I do realize that Sam,...was just addressing an earlier post that talked about exits.

As I started off with, an account of Polly perhaps meeting her attacker on another street is a moot point, she wasnt found murdered there.

You mentioned the disposition of the deceased for transporting...and thats about how I would view this too...not at all practical. Her back was soaked in blood...she had been laying it where she was found.

Best regards.