Was Polly moved to Bucks Row ?

[Elamarna]

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Fascinating discussion indeed

The possibility of the body being moved is close to Zero Chris.
Despite the early press reports of blood trails running down Brady Street, ( which were later retracted by the same papers) there was no blood trail, which there would have been given the wounds.
The ONLY blood away from the body was a few drops, to the West, almost certainly the result of loading the body onto the ambulance and pushing it towards the mortuary.

Steve

[Herlock Sholmes]

I think that perrymason was Michael J. Richards? If so, this could be the first time I’ve ever agreed with him. I don’t think that any of the bodies were moved. I go for the straightforward, if perhaps less interesting, ‘killed where they were found.’

[The Rookie Detective]

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Fascinating discussion indeed

Hi Pirate,

I think youre right in thinking that a carriage would make noise in both Bucks Row and Mitre Square, but I cant imagine why else they would surmise that those women were moved in a cart or carriage. Maybe they thought the murder noises might have been louder than a cart or carriage. Who knows?

I dont see them suggesting that cartage based on the blood evidence....because Polly was lying in her own pool of blood, the clothing on her back was soaked in it...as was Kates. Demonstrating that they were both likely laying flat when they had arteries cut.

All the best.

[Jeff Leahy]

Pirate, with all due respect, where her killer met her is a question that we would like answered, but it would in no way change the physical evidence that suggests she was found where she died.

Polly was not the only Ripper victim that some suggestion of moving the body after death was made...it was also suggested about Kate. Both sites were accessible by carriage.

But neither shows physical evidence that warrants the assumption. It was probably investigators trying to assess if they could have been murdered soundlessly where they were found.

Best regards.

Michael with due respect I think a carrage or cart in bucks row would have been heard. Emma Green was a light sleeper and there was another woman awake next door (forgot name, off head).

It was you that suggested a significance in choice of Jacks locations. I simply pointed out its unlikely he chose them, he just took what opportunity he could and the victims presented.

However we do have a siting of Poly by Emily Holland that would put Poly close to the High Street and the most likely place to find a client.

If you walk down whitechappel Road from Osbourne Street towards bucks row you pass Green feild Street opposite Whitechappel Road.

I'm simply suggesting a good place to meet Jack.

Pirate Jack

Pirate, with all due respect, where her killer met her is a question that we would like answered, but it would in no way change the physical evidence that suggests she was found where she died.

Polly was not the only Ripper victim that some suggestion of moving the body after death was made...it was also suggested about Kate. Both sites were accessible by carriage.

But neither shows physical evidence that warrants the assumption. It was probably investigators trying to assess if they could have been murdered soundlessly where they were found.

Best regards.

[Jeff Leahy]

There was me thinking it was an everyday shopping trip to Sainsburys, but then Whitechappel seems posh if you came from Walthamstow..

Having also walked the area a number of times I've often wondered where Poly met Jack? Because the main road seems most plausible opporsite or nr green Field Street.

I cant see an altercation before hand as I believe Poly took Jack to those Gates. So reasoning about the locations is irelevent as the victims choose them.

But Poly certainly didnt meet with Jack where she was found.

Yours Pirate

[kensei]

Came into this discussion late. I think forensics has established that when someone has their throat cut while already lying on their back the blood will not necessarily pool out around them but will flow underneath and be soaked up by the clothing, as happened with Polly, and also that if she had been transported someone in Buck's Row should have reported seeing or hearing the cart or coach that dropped her off. Horse drawn vehicles are noisy, and even today in my experience finding buildings in London with noise insulation is hit and miss. A century ago it must have been nearly non-existent.

I've toured the Ripper sites. Polly's site is the farthest from any of the others, so much so that most tours do not visit it. Not an astronomical distance, but a significant hike. But where I live in the U.S., in my town there happens to be quite a large number of bars as well as three universities (hence lots of college parties), so staggering drunks in the night are a regular sight here, and they can cover some pretty long distances in spite of their condition. It suggests Polly's last walk was a pretty sad and pathetic one. If her meeting with Jack happened to take place close in time to other violence around Buck's Row and Brady Street that night, well, that was the nature of Whitechapel.

I remember walking on Brady Street on my way to the murder site last September at around 7:30 in the morning before most shops were open. I passed a newsstand with a sandwhich board out front advertising the local paper with lurid headlines displayed. On one side it said "GAY KNIFE VICTIM FIGHTS FOR LIFE," and on the other, "MAN IN ROOFTOP DEATH PLUNGE." And I thought, "Yes! I am in Whitechapel."

[Mascara & Paranoia]

WTF.

Why would Jack move any of his victims, let alone transfer Polly's cadaver to Buck's Row, of all places? That whole picture's ridiculous.

[Supe]

Jez,

But we have to retain an open mind about possibilities.

With all due respect, no we don't. With no credible evidence whatsoever to suggest otherwise, to play the "ever-ramifiying universes" game is a snare and delusion that leads down a path to nowhere. That would seem to be the case with the site where Polly was killed.

Don.

[Jez]

For the sake of accuracy, it is worth pointing out that Polly Nicholls could have been murdered elsewhere and her body lifted out from a cart and dumped in Bucks Row. Any small loss of blood in this manoevre would have gone unnoticed . It is a fallacy to suggest that her blood-soaked remains proves that she was killed where she was found. Her murder was poorly investigated and it is just about possible that she was killed several minutes before her body was perhaps silently dumped in Buck's Row. Feng Shui, no. But we have to retain an open mind about possibilities.

I do realize that Sam,...was just addressing an earlier post that talked about exits.

As I started off with, an account of Polly perhaps meeting her attacker on another street is a moot point, she wasnt found murdered there.

You mentioned the disposition of the deceased for transporting...and thats about how I would view this too...not at all practical. Her back was soaked in blood...she had been laying it where she was found.

Best regards.

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Mike,

The most time consuming and vicious murder of all 5...and he does it with his back to the windows and door, with only a single exit available.

1. That was largely true of the Hanbury Street murder;

2. This is neither a Mary Kelly nor an Annie Chapman thread;

Edit: It's not even about the layouts and relative advantages/disadvantages of the murder sites in general, come to think of it. It's just about whether Polly was killed elsewhere or not.

Even if she was accosted somewhere first and that led to the fatal attack in Bucks Row, the thread question would be dealt with,....she was killed where she was found. Like all the other Canonicals.

Bucks Row had disadvantages and advantages, it was an open ended street, unless someone comes down from both directions,...he had an out. He had an out in Hanbury...over the fence if need be, or if seen by a neighbor, back through the house. Dutfield's Yard had the gates and the side door to the club, Mitre Square had 3 possible escape routes, 2 of which he might use if someone came in one of them,...and in Millers Court, he has 1 exit.

The most time consuming and vicious murder of all 5...and he does it with his back to the windows and door, with only a single exit available.

Best regards all.

[Robert]

Jack didn't do Feng Shui.