What Direction Was Polly Travelling When She Was Killed?

[Batman]

No he doesn't!

Oh yes he does!

[Simon Wood]

Hi John G,

"The evidence against any individual is incredibly flimsy."

How right you are. Every suspect has been put in the dock of popular opinion on the basis of no evidence whatsoever.

Just because Bury or Chapman killed their wives, or Thompson had some strange habits, doesn't make any one of them the Whitechapel murderer.

It's this 'done one, done 'em all' approach, trying to pin five murders [let's put the others out of the frame for the moment] on one person that is perverting our thinking. Originally, the first four murders were pinned on John Pizer. Look how that worked out.

It's quite possible the C5 were killed by five different people.

The real mystery is how and why, and to the apparent satisfaction of Scotland Yard, they all ended up under the rubric of JtR.

Regards,

Simon

[Batman]

It's quite possible the C5 were killed by five different people.

The real mystery is how and why, and to the apparent satisfaction of Scotland Yard, they all ended up under the rubric of JtR.

Regards,

Simon

The multiple copycat hypothesis suffers from probabilities so low you might as well bet on winning the lottery instead.

If anyone wants to know if the C5 are the work of the same hand or not, they just need to turn to the professional literature on the subject. There are peer-review journals publishing articles on this topic.

A copycat would have to know all of the following...

The C5 were murdered prostrate on their backs and a knife used to slice their throats. That sort of MO is a rare one in itself. It means the murder victims won't have blood running down their front. Also, the wounds were made in such a way that rapid blood loss around the head made it easier for the ripper to mutilate without getting much blood on him. Not all mutilators exsanguinate first. Then there is the posing of the victims. Palms upwards. Legs apart evolving into full spreads Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly. All occurred in darkness except Kelly who was lit by a fire. The time of the attacks is at night into the small hours. The copycats would just happen to form a geocentric geoprofile we associate with unwitting serial killers striking away from their home. Things like that.

This is a must-read analysis -> https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/jip.22

Paywall though but Keppel published it in his books though.

[Sam Flynn]

Folks,

I really don't think that the "was/wasn't Jack a myth?" matter has anything remotely to do with the subject of this thread. Nor does the question of whether George Chapman or anyone else was a feasible suspect.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Sam,

I don't think the matter of "What Direction Was Polly Travelling When She Was Killed" will enlighten us to any degree, so I am pleased that the thread has evolved into its current form.

Regards,

Simon

[barnflatwyngarde]

Hi Sam,

I don't think the matter of "What Direction Was Polly Travelling When She Was Killed" will enlighten us to any degree, so I am pleased that the thread has evolved into its current form.

Regards,

Simon

Wow Simon, that is probably the single most arrogant and pompous post I have ever read on these boards.

When I joined this forum it became clear that there were very many people with a vast knowledge of the case. I have read most of the books relating to the case, and I know a fair bit about it, but it is still a brave move for a beginner to take that leap of faith and start her/his first thread.

I confess that sometimes I find the personal attacks that masquerade as reasoned arguments a bit hard to take, but I stuck with it and I hope that the few threads I have started have contributed in some way to the debate around this fascinating and perplexing case.

Your ridiculously arrogant and ignorant post has probably discouraged a lot of newcomers from taking that first leap to posting their first thread.

Nice one!

I apologise if my intellectual effort re this Polly Nichols post offends your superior knowledge, but I'll probably just keep plugging away with all the other little people, even if my occasional posts "fail to enlighten us to any degree".

“No single step in the persuit of enlightenment should ever be considered sacred; only the search was.”
― Ann Druyan, The Varieties of Scientific Experience

[Simon Wood]

Hi Barnflatwyngarde,

No offence. I didn't look to see who started the thread.

Regards,

Simon

[DJA]

Batman, it's the cutting of the carotids, not the jugular that leads to swift unconsciousness and death.
A minor point, but important.


Steve

Both are contained in the carotid sheath which was cut through in all five murders.

[DJA]

Also, JtR couldn't have known about geoprofiling at the time because it's a 90s discovery. It works on the basis that subconsciously they will do this and therefore triangulate their position mathematically within areas of probability for where they live/work.

Today forensic awareness of this by offenders changes things up a bit, but back in 1888, no way!

I think this is one of the few solid leads we have in this case.

Have you considered that Jack might have thought that any more murders on his way home along Hanbury Street and so close to his main workplace,the London Hospital,might be a tad risky?

Especially when a peer like Dr Phillips,who lived on his way home,all but identified him by way of the knife used.

Reckon you might be seeking a pathologist at the London Hospital.

Perhaps one with a particular interest in diseased kidneys ..... and rheumatic fever ..... not to mention TB ......

[MrBarnett]

Have you considered that Jack might have thought that any more murders on his way home along Hanbury Street and so close to his main workplace,the London Hospital,might be a tad risky?

Especially when a peer like Dr Phillips,who lived on his way home,all but identified him by way of the knife used.

Reckon you might be seeking a pathologist at the London Hospital.

Perhaps one with a particular interest in diseased kidneys ..... and rheumatic fever ..... not to mention TB ......

No serial killer is ever diverted from his perfect spiral. It's been proven - by experts.

[barnflatwyngarde]

Oh well, it was worth a try!

[MrBarnett]

Oh well, it was worth a try!

It was a perfectly valid question with which to start a thread.

[barnflatwyngarde]

It was a perfectly valid question with which to start a thread.

Hi MrBarnett, I posted the question which started this thread.

I was commenting on the post by DJA re the wound to the artery.

This was after a plea to stick to the original post of the thread.

It happens far too often that valid points raised in new threads get hijacked, or are quickly moved off the topic.

[DJA]

Hi MrBarnett, I posted the question which started this thread.

I was commenting on the post by DJA re the wound to the artery.

This was after a plea to stick to the original post of the thread.

It happens far too often that valid points raised in new threads get hijacked, or are quickly moved off the topic.

Not sure which post you were commenting on.

A link would be handy.

Reckon Jack got Polly off Hanbury Street by telling her he had no funds for blackmail at that time of the morning,however he had a friend from Kent who would put her up for the night in Bucks Row.

That would tie in with other evidence.

[DJA]

No serial killer is ever diverted from his perfect spiral. It's been proven - by experts.

Can't agree with you on that.

Ironically,do you know how Harold Shipman was suspected and caught?