What Direction Was Polly Travelling When She Was Killed?

[Elamarna]

Anyone could do it, for God's sake.

And unfortunatly still do all over the world.



Steve

[Robert]

Hi Batman

Well, Bob Hinton in his book says that bayonets could be bought in East London quite cheap. The thing is, though, that if it was an army man following his training - in his sleep, a it were - then the overkill on Tabram looks very inefficient. Surely the idea was to kill as quickly as possible?

[MrBarnett]

Hi Batman

Well, Bob Hinton in his book says that bayonets could be bought in East London quite cheap. The thing is, though, that if it was an army man following his training - in his sleep, a it were - then the overkill on Tabram looks very inefficient. Surely the idea was to kill as quickly as possible?

Tabram was killed in a blind fury my a man of 'ungovernable temper'. 😎

[MrBarnett]

Why did Harriet Lilley not hear the noise of Polly's steel-tipped boots?

[Batman]

Anyone could do it, for God's sake.

Anyone could try to do it and as we have seen from a whole history of women and men also escaping such attacks and shouting for help getting the killer caught, red-handed in lots of cases or a good composite that eventually identifies them. Then we have women fighting back and leaving marks on their murderer etc.

Anyone could do it, but not everyone could get away with it. Yet JtR did.

[Batman]

Hi Batman

Well, Bob Hinton in his book says that bayonets could be bought in East London quite cheap. The thing is, though, that if it was an army man following his training - in his sleep, a it were - then the overkill on Tabram looks very inefficient. Surely the idea was to kill as quickly as possible?

JtR killed extremely quickly. He didn't torture them. It was so instant the victims probably weren't alive or conscious of the mutilations. Their jugular was open and a Coke can volume of blood would spew out per second. He needed a fresh dead woman to perform his mutilations. That was his signature. MO was to cut their throats quickly while he had them down on their back.

I think the way he attacked them indicates experience.

[Sam Flynn]

JtR killed extremely quickly. He didn't torture them. It was so instant the victims probably weren't alive or conscious of the mutilations. Their jugular was open and a Coke can volume of blood would spew out per second. He needed a fresh dead woman to perform his mutilations. That was his signature. MO was to cut their throats quickly while he had them down on their back.

I think the way he attacked them indicates experience.

It strikes me that he'd perhaps have needed more experience in slaughtering than he did in overpowering/conning his victims into submission.

[Elamarna]

Why did Harriet Lilley not hear the noise of Polly's steel-tipped boots?

A thoughtful question Gary,

Several possible explanations.

1. She made her account up.

2. She was actually woken by the passing train, or by some other sound, and missed Nichols arriving at the site.


Steve

[Elamarna]

JtR killed extremely quickly. He didn't torture them. It was so instant the victims probably weren't alive or conscious of the mutilations. Their jugular was open and a Coke can volume of blood would spew out per second. He needed a fresh dead woman to perform his mutilations. That was his signature. MO was to cut their throats quickly while he had them down on their back.

I think the way he attacked them indicates experience.

Batman, it's the cutting of the carotids, not the jugular that leads to swift unconsciousness and death.
A minor point, but important.


Steve

[Batman]

Batman, it's the cutting of the carotids, not the jugular that leads to swift unconsciousness and death.
A minor point, but important.


Steve

Your right. I caught that later. Jugular is a vein. However, cutting that vein does have it's own consequences but much slower and is easier to stop with pressure applied. I am pretty sure in few case JtR went through them all down to the neck bone.

[Sam Flynn]

I am pretty sure in few case JtR went through them all down to the neck bone.

Correct, and Nichols was one of them.

[Harry D]

Thus I don't think that he was, for example, a horse-slaughterer operating under the delusion that Nichols was a horse. (As has been proposed on this forum before)

And that Isenschmid thought he was butchering a sheep when he mutilated Annie Chapman. Lynn Cates posited that theory, I believe.

[MrBarnett]

A thoughtful question Gary,

Several possible explanations.

1. She made her account up.

2. She was actually woken by the passing train, or by some other sound, and missed Nichols arriving at the site.


Steve

Of course, if she entered Bucks Row from Winthrop Street her boots would have made much less noise than if she'd clip-clopped all the way from Brady Street, say.

[Elamarna]

Of course, if she entered Bucks Row from Winthrop Street her boots would have made much less noise than if she'd clip-clopped all the way from Brady Street, say.

My guess would be excluding entering via Brown's yard that she came from Court street or more likely Woods Buildings. With the possibility of going to HB first.


Steve

[Batman]

Casting suspicion on a witness is throughout all of the history of notorious serial crimes and even non-serial ones and is a reason why plenty of witnesses refuse to acknowledge they are one, lest they cast suspicion on themselves. Who hasn't thought a witness was possibly JtR? Be it a witness at any of the canonical crimes. That's probably why PCs looked closely at them and they got investigated. I am just surprised that someone has run with the idea a ripper witness was the murderer. It's the kind of thing one thinks about maybe for a few moments and then gets that such scenarios were likely gone over by investigators at the time.