Did the 5 canonical victims know each other?

[Mascara & Paranoia]

I doubt they knew each other, or if they did they just walked past one another every once in a while. That's the same as expecting me to know everyone in the area I live, and it's not as big or as crammed as Whitechapel was back in the 1888. In some of the old pictures there's hundreds (probably literally) of people in one shot of a street or a market or whatever.

[jason_c]

They may have known each other by sight.

There is no record of any victim having mentioned a friend being killed by the Ripper. Kelly told no-one that a friend of hers had been killed by JtR. Neither did Eddowes, Stride or Chapman.

[Nothing to see]

I doubt they knew each other, or if they did they just walked past one another every once in a while. That's the same as expecting me to know everyone in the area I live, and it's not as big or as crammed as Whitechapel was back in the 1888. In some of the old pictures there's hundreds (probably literally) of people in one shot of a street or a market or whatever.

Agreed. I walked those streets in Sept/Oct last year and to think of that mass of humanity existing in that small area is mind boggling. There were so many people. And their lives were so fluid. It's not like they put down roots and bought or rented places to live. Their lives were day to day, survival. I don't accept the Stephen Knight and everyone else who's jumped on the bandwagon idea of the doctor/Freemason/ royal conspiracy.

Because, so far, that's the only theory about the pros knowing each other that's had any legs.

[Sam Flynn]

Again, I think it's possible the pros knew each other but I can't prove or disprove it.

Add to that the fact that few of these women were "pros" in the conventional sense (i.e. they would not have met up with fellow "Ello, dearies" on a regular basis, or shared the same "patch" night after night) and the "reasons" for their being anything other than faces in an enormous crowd become ever more difficult to defend.

[Nothing to see]

Add to that the fact that few of these women were "pros" in the conventional sense (i.e. they would not have met up with fellow "Ello, dearies" on a regular basis, or shared the same "patch" night after night) and the "reasons" for their being anything other than faces in an enormous crowd become ever more difficult to defend.

We both agree, I think, that it's possible the pros knew each other but not probable. Knight's theory is about the only one that deals with this. And that's a load of cr**.

But say, two of them met each other. How would that be a basis for Jack to go after them?

Actually, that's not a bad idea for a new thread. I'm sure Jack went for opportunity, not the person.

Anyway. If there is any proof that any of the pros knew each other, I'd be interested.

[Sam Flynn]

We both agree, I think, that it's possible the pros knew each other but not probable.

I also disagree with calling them "prostitutes" - it perpetuates a somewhat distorted perception of what the majority of these women were.

[Nothing to see]

I also disagree with calling them "prostitutes" - it perpetuates a somewhat distorted perception of what the majority of these women were.

Well then, what were they? Housewifes? Homemakers?

A distorted perception? In your mind, OK maybe. The truth. They were hookers. Professional, semi, occasional. That's what they were. If you want to prove they weren't, then go for it. I'll take a bet you can't.

[Sam Flynn]

Well then, what were they? Housewifes? Homemakers?

A distorted perception? In your mind, OK maybe. The truth. They were hookers. Professional, semi, occasional. That's what they were. If you want to prove they weren't, then go for it. I'll take a bet you can't.

Instead of revealing your ignorance by adopting that insulting and hectoring tone, why don't you go and read up about it?

[Nothing to see]

Instead of revealing your ignorance by adopting that insulting and hectoring tone, why don't you go and read up about it?

Son, sorry Sam, you need to get over the fact that not everyone agrees with everything you say.

Adults are prepared to discuss topics. Like the fact that Jack's victims were pros. Professional, semi, or occasional.

Like I said. You have proof they weren't pros provide it.

I thought you were an upright guy. Obviously, I'm wrong.

[perrymason]

As Sam pointed out, Unfortunates is a term that is used to describe women without consistent financial support from either a man, a family or conventional employment. Divorcees, unmarried women, widows, ....the act of prostitution was for many their last resort each day I would imagine. Do you think Annie felt like being out soliciting...or that Mary Ann Cox was eager to solicit in the rain and gain only infrequent warmth from her room and its fire in early November?

And even a "pro" like young Mary Jane expressed to a friend that she wished her life was much different.

They prostituted themselves to survive...to earn bed money, food money, money for clothing...and sadly many for the booze that came with the pick-up process in many pubs, or after when the deed was done and a few coins in the skirt pocket.

Best regards.

[Sam Flynn]

Indeed, Mike - these weren't by any means the professional painted ladies conjured up by the term "prostitute", which is why the term is misleading. These women would as likely beg, steal, borrow or undertake a menial job as they would take to the streets on an occasional basis. In that sense, it's even a stretch to lump all of the C5 under the heading of "casual prostitutes" - they were middle-aged, drunken, poverty-stricken vagrants for the most part.

[perrymason]

It seems to me Sam that the booze problem for many of them wasnt always escapism, or forgetting their woes...but a legitimate way to stave off the cold on some nights as well. Ive enjoyed some scotch in the wine sack while skiing before, for the same reason.

It seems that "drunk" and "prostitute" come up lots in these threads, and I tried to address that recently in a thread of my own.

Threadwise though, I do think for at least 4 of these women, it would be a safe guess that at some point some might have encountered each other....being as their circumstances were the same, and we are talking about less than a square mile of land.

Best regards

[Sam Flynn]

Threadwise though, I do think for at least 4 of these women, it would be a safe guess that at some point some might have encountered each other....being as their circumstances were the same, and we are talking about less than a square mile of land....

... in which twenty thousand other people lived - and that's just Spitalfields. That doesn't include Poplar and St George's East where Stride had spent most of her time. The victims might have breezed past one another on a fairly frequent basis, but when they did so, they'd have done so in a crowd. The chances of them knowing one another on a "sight-only" basis would therefore be comparatively low in itself, and the chances of their being personally acquainted is vanishingly small.

[perrymason]

I realize that the numbers are large Sam, but when you have a culture that involves some of the people within it being out on the streets 24 hours a day...and in these cases, perhaps regularly out all night, common "employment", common fondness for drink, the possibility that they served some of the same clients, in the same areas.

If we were talking about a modern city core, with the monied tenants living in high rises, you hardly ever see them as foot traffic in that same area. They use elevators, and underground garages, and shop in shopping areas perhaps outside the immediate area where they live.

In 1888, in Whitechapel, the streets are full daily....all the local residents had to exit their domiciles and seek or attend work locally. Similarly at night, when the women who had to solicit or chose to solicit came out...thats a different socio economic group than the working poor, but no less a society unto itself.

I would think just like a man or woman might see someone a few times a week when off to work, or at the train, these women might have encountered each other when their world took to the streets, after dark.

Cheers Sam

[Sam Flynn]

I realize that the numbers are large Sam, but when you have a culture that involves some of the people within it being out on the streets 24 hours a day...

... they'd be mixing with up to 20,000 others in the same boat, Mike.

the possibility that they served some of the same clients, in the same areas.

This is another example of how the "prostitute" notion kicks our logic in the nuts. We're not talking about regular clients or regular beats - we're talking about "fourpence a grope" for any drunkard desperate enough, on those occasions when an "unfortunate" was short of the price of a bed or a glass of rum. It's not as if most of these women's appearance lent itself to "call-again" customers, either - there were younger women, comparatively less ravaged by time and place, to cater for those.