Did the 5 canonical victims know each other?

[Mr.Hyde]

Mr.Hyde

Hi Mr. Hyde,

Yes I have been reading your posts, including back on the Prostitutes 1881 thread where you posit Mary Kelly was a local woman. Your solution seems to do with the victims knowing each other and their killer, if I read between the lines correctly. Sort of an interwoven situation.

You drop a little bit here, a little bit there. Like feeding birds. Why not start a big post and lay out your scenario to the inth degree? Let the hammer down.

Roy

Thanks for that Roy,
You are right!
I am in a difficult position.
Firstly I'm a newbie and not taken seriously.
Secondly I have a substantial financial interest at stake-not just for myself,but for my screenwriter.
I have explained that in two previous posts.In fact I did so in an email before I joined.Frankly,I am looking for a researcher-Riding and London/Whitechapel.
I believe that after CVs 1 & 2 were murdered,CV5 and then CV4 knew what was going on.Also CV3.Blackmail!That is, the last 3CVs fell in order due to circumstance.
I apologise for "feeding the birds"-think I've been above board though.Reckon most of my posts have been fair dinkum and informative,bit of humor,got roped in a bit this morning.
Probably given away more than most people in my situation.I am 100% sure who JTR was-I could be wrong.
I have specific information that I am after.I am after the truth.Not going ahead with screenplay unless I am damn sure.
Again,anyone with research skills and location are welcome to PM me.Not asking anyone to help for free.
Thanks Again,
Dave.
PS.My scriptwriter has been pretty much extremely interested since August 2008.

[John Bennett]

Hello John,
It was rumoured that Mjk, was aquainted with Annie Chapman, although only oral history, what you suggest seems logical, however it is quite possible that Mary did mention the fact that the women were known to her, at least to Barnett, just because he does not annnounce it to the media, does not say he was unaware of that, he may have had reasons why he never mentioned it.

'Oral history' can be a dodgy source, Richard. Check out Mary Ann Cox's neice's recollections to Dan Farson about the Kelly murder (in his 1972 book), for example.

However, we have here a case of 'just because it wasn't said, doesn't mean it didn't happen', in which case, anything is possible.

JB

[Jon Guy]

Check out the death certificate.

Hadn`t noticed that before, nice one.

[Mr.Hyde]

I've read your posts.
What do you make of it?

[John Bennett]

I believe the matter of Polly Nichols' death certificate came up on another recent thread.

The movements of Nichols prior to her death are pretty well documented, with 56 Flower and Dean Street and 18 Thrawl Street being her last known 'addresses'.

Annie Chapman was a resident of 35 Dorset Street. The Nichols and Chapman inquests overlapped considerably. Clerical error?

[Sam Flynn]

The movements of Nichols prior to her death are pretty well documented, with 56 Flower and Dean Street and 18 Thrawl Street being her last known 'addresses'.

Quite so, John.

Annie Chapman was a resident of 35 Dorset Street. The Nichols and Chapman inquests overlapped considerably. Clerical error?

Probably. Whether it was or wasn't, it was still wrong and - in any case - Kelly had moved out of 35 Dorset Street (or - more likely - the adjacent Paternoster Row) in 1887, ending up in Miller's Court via Brick Lane.

[Roy Corduroy]

Thanks for the reply, Dave

I am looking for a researcher-Riding and London/Whitechapel.
I apologise for "feeding the birds"

No apology needed, Dave, and good luck with your project. Looks like you are gaining some consults already.

Roy

ps You consults. Was the prostitute Mary Ann Kelly in the 81 census ruled out as being the victim? Or not.

[Mr.Hyde]

If she was "dead" in the 1891 census.........

[Mr.Hyde]

Thanks Roy.
Motive for GH testimony days after-with MAK dead,GH inherits the "tontine".

[Sam Flynn]

I have yet to see any good or valid reason why all of the victims were not known to each other, on a nodding basis where names were known.

Perhaps some visuals might help, AP? This is what Dorset Street looks like today:



I have drawn precisely 825 dots along its length, which is of the order of the number of people living in that street in 1888. You can just make out two yellow dots that represent Annie Chapman and Mary Kelly.

I could repeat a similar exercise for Flower & Dean Street, Thrawl Street and Devonshire Street (St George's East), where the other victims were known to live at the time, but that would drive us all dotty. And that's without the dottiness of the multitude of other streets in between.

[Cap'n Jack]

Sending visuals to a blind man is never going to help, Sam, but I appreciate the gesture even when I can't see it.
How many of those dots are prostitutes?
How many pimps?
Do you have a big red dot for Jack 'Carthy?

[Sam Flynn]

How many of those dots are prostitutes?

Oooh... about 30 tops, I'd guess, AP - vocationally speaking, that is. As to "circumstance-driven" streetwalkers, vagrants or occasional prostitutes - like Dark Annie - a few more.

Pimps - hardly any, if any at all. Carrion needs no butcher.

[John Bennett]

Another example:

Flower and Dean Street had a total of 31 common lodging houses in 1888, registered to have 1127 lodgers in total.

Considering it is reckoned that many such places illegally exceeded their quota, who are you going to 'know' out of that lot?

[Mr.Hyde]

Mr.Hyde

Oooh... about 30 tops, I'd guess, AP - vocationally speaking, that is. As to "circumstance-driven" streetwalkers, vagrants or occasional prostitutes - like Dark Annie - a few more.

Pimps - hardly any, if any at all. Carrion needs no butcher.

No offence intended.
Your last sentence-Carrion needs no butcher-straight out of JTR's philosophy.
Ever read Spinoza and Carlyle?
Lenin and Hitler did.
Again,no offence meant-pure synchronicity!

[Nothing to see]

Another example:

Flower and Dean Street had a total of 31 common lodging houses in 1888, registered to have 1127 lodgers in total.

Considering it is reckoned that many such places illegally exceeded their quota, who are you going to 'know' out of that lot?

Good point and I thought the dots were informative. So many people living, maybe 'existing' is a better word, on a hand-to-mouth casual manner, moving constantly. Again, I think it's possible the pros knew each other but I can't prove or disprove it. If there's definitive, absolute proof that there was a link between two or more of them, then that would change the mix. But...until that proof is offered to scrutiny, then I'll continue to believe what is a reasonable theory: possible they could have known each other, not probable.