Who was killed by Jack the Ripper?

[Mike J. G.]

I think if Emma Smith hadn't made it to anyone for help, and taken to the hospital, and was found dead in the street where she was attacked, she'd probably be considered a victim of JtR.

Having a blunt object thrust up into her vagina is pretty brutal, and it didn't happen every day. Just my two pennies worth.

[John Wheat]

I think if Emma Smith hadn't made it to anyone for help, and taken to the hospital, and was found dead in the street where she was attacked, she'd probably be considered a victim of JtR.

Having a blunt object thrust up into her vagina is pretty brutal, and it didn't happen every day. Just my two pennies worth.

Hi Mike

I agree. I think theres a tendency to over estimate just how many violent murders there were in late 1880s London.

Cheers John

[Losmandris]

With AM the time gap needs to be explained. It's a massive gap considering how close the C5 were together.

This is always the sticking point and you make a fair point with it. Sure someone with more insight than me can add here but I am pretty sure several modern era serial killers have left long spaces between 'sprees' (if that is the term) may this happened here? but then the inevitable question would be why did he stop again after just one more killing?

[John Wheat]

This is always the sticking point and you make a fair point with it. Sure someone with more insight than me can add here but I am pretty sure several modern era serial killers have left long spaces between 'sprees' (if that is the term) may this happened here? but then the inevitable question would be why did he stop again after just one more killing?

Modern serial killers have but it's not that common and to go from killing 5 in a short space of time. Then leaving a comparatively long gap and then killing one person is pretty much unheard of.

[The Rookie Detective]

I think the answer perhaps lies in the answer to another question...

What did the victims have in common?

Aside from the most obvious, there may have been other aspects that linked at least some of the victims together.

Elizabeth Stride worked within the Jewish community and spoke Yiddish and was murdered outside a Jewish club.

Catherine Eddowes worked within the Jewish community and was murdered close to a synagogue

Alice McKenzie worked within the Jewish community and murdered in the heart of the Jewish community, close to the GSG from the previous year.

Yet, all were non-Jewish women.

The Moab and Midian letter that may have been sent by the real killer, eludes to the writer being a Jew who has a hatred for the women of Moab and Midian; who were said to have seduced and corrupted the Jews (men) through carnal temptation and desire.

Let's continue...

Nichols was murdered around the corner from the old Jewish cemetery in Brady Street.
Interestingly, 2 female "witnesses" who claimed to have heard a woman in distress, shortly before someone was heard colliding with the shutters of their shop downstairs, stated that the woman came from the direction of the Jewish Cemetery. This occurred around the time of the murder.
This would imply that Nichols had initially fled from her attacker and tried to head west along Bucks Row before she was finally subdued and murdered.

Chapman was murdered yards from a Synagogue that was located nearby. There was more than one Synagogue within a short radius of 29 Hanbury Street.


But what about Kelly?

I would be fairly confident in suggesting that Kelly had a closer connection to the Jewish community than has been realised before.

The Fashion St soup kitchen perhaps holds the key to it all.


Perhaps.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes and Kelly for me.

Four horrific murders in a fairly small area over a period of around 70 days. Throat cutting, increasing levels of mutilation, all women from the same walk of life.

[Fiver]

I went with C5 + Tabram.

Nichols, Chapman, and Eddowes are definite.
Tabram and Kelly are probable.
Stride is likely.
McKenzie is unlikely, but possible.

[Kunochan]

The coroners/police were limited by quota to how many murders they could have on their books and in a case where solution was virtually hopeless, such as in the cases of Millwood and Horsenell, verdicts other than murder were brought in. This also helped keep crime numbers low and made the politicians and police look a bit better than they were. A few excellent academic papers have been written on this fascinating (and completely legal) practice. From what I understand, it ended in England around 1960. Only a fraction of murders were reported/documented as such.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I voted C4, but I think Tabram was also a victim of the killer of Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes, and "Kelly" (I don't think the victim in that case was actually Kelly).

This quota idea is very interesting to me. Tom, do you know how I can find any of these academic papers? I'd love to look at them. Thanks!

[GBinOz]

Nichols was murdered around the corner from the old Jewish cemetery in Brady Street.
Interestingly, 2 female "witnesses" who claimed to have heard a woman in distress, shortly before someone was heard colliding with the shutters of their shop downstairs, stated that the woman came from the direction of the Jewish Cemetery. This occurred around the time of the murder.
This would imply that Nichols had initially fled from her attacker and tried to head west along Bucks Row before she was finally subdued and murdered.

Hi RD,

I presume that you are referring to Mrs Colville and her daughter. At one stage i considered her story as relevant but subsequently discovered that there was a gap of some hours between their hearing a woman in distress and Nichols demise. There is an interesting thread on the topic here:

https://forum.casebook.org/forum/rip...f-mrs-colville

Cheers, George

[FrankO]

Hi Marcel,

My favoured choice isn't in the poll, but if I had to choose I'd go with: Nichols, Chapman, Eddowes, Kelly, Millwood, Wilson and Tabram. And I always think there's a good chance that a failed attempt of his was mentioned in the Lloyd's of 30 September:

"Last night a correspondent furnished us with another strange story of an incident occurring early on Thursday morning, near to the scene of the four murders. He states that early in the morning a woman was sitting sleeping on some steps in one of the houses in Dorset-street, when she was awoke by a man who asked her whether she had any bed to go to, or any money to pay for a lodging. She replied that she had not, upon which he said he had money, and then gave her what she thought was two half-sovereigns. She went with him down a passage, and when there he seized her by the throat and tried to strangle her. A scuffle ensued between them, in which she screamed and got away. The next morning she found that what he gave her was two farthings machined round the edge like gold coins. She described him as being a man with a dark moustache, and dressed in a rough frieze blue overcoat."



Cheers,
Frank

[Mortis]

C5. Stride is the biggest issue, given that she received no actual mutilations, but the timeline gives credibility to the Ripper being interrupted. But obviously I'm not entirely feeling confident she was, might be just a freak circumstance. At any rate, I don't give much credibility to the rest outside the C5, too different of a MO. Ripper was interested in mutilating, not stabbing or simple killing.

[FrankO]

I think the answer perhaps lies in the answer to another question...

What did the victims have in common?

Aside from the most obvious, there may have been other aspects that linked at least some of the victims together.

Elizabeth Stride worked within the Jewish community and spoke Yiddish and was murdered outside a Jewish club.

...

Chapman was murdered yards from a Synagogue that was located nearby. There was more than one Synagogue within a short radius of 29 Hanbury Street.


But what about Kelly?

I would be fairly confident in suggesting that Kelly had a closer connection to the Jewish community than has been realised before.

The Fashion St soup kitchen perhaps holds the key to it all.


Perhaps.

Hi RD,

Had the area was not been full of Jewish people, shops and buildings, then I'd say you might have a point. Yet, seeing that it would have been very difficult to avoid any Jewish link, I don't know how telling (or not) it would be.

Cheers,
Frank