Chapman and Kelly's Left Arms

[caz]

Well I don't know the habits of either woman where men were concerned, but Kelly's 'place' was a tiny room with a bed taking up much of the space and she did invite Blotchy in. There is no evidence that he was a known associate of hers and Barnett had very recently left her to it, so who really knows either way?

I wrote the above in response to the question of how financially desperate the Whitechapel victims were when their killer(s) struck. I didn't even mention prostitution, and I readily admitted to not knowing why Kelly invited Blotchy into her bedroom, or whether she was hoping he might be able to help out with her rent arrears or next meal. And here is Mike Richards's response:

I guess you assume that street prostitutes sing for over an hour to every client they decide to bring into a rented room in their own name....not a hotel room or a lodging house room or a bordello room, their own room. One that there is no record of her ever bring clients into.

Yes, Mike, you 'guess', when you only needed to read my words with a bit of care to see I assumed nothing of the kind. Where do you pluck this stuff from?

Caz, you already have the evidence before you that Mary didnt take Blotchy into her room to service him, so why would you suggest it anyway? Its one of your more frustrating qualities...youd rather speculate wildly to support your own perceptions than follow the evidence where it leads.

But where did I suggest she did take Blotchy into her room to 'service' him, Mike? Once again, you are the one who is obsessed with the sexual act, not me. It's one of your more frustrating qualities and unaccountably it makes you see things in my posts that are not there.

So she invited him in and gave him a song, perhaps in return for a swig of ale from his pot and a fish supper he shared with her earlier, going by the evidence before us. That's not 'servicing' him, is it? But still going by the evidence before us, Cox didn't recognise Blotchy as a regular guest or acquaintance of Kelly's, did she? So we are both left in the dark to speculate 'wildly' about whether he had or hadn't met Kelly before that night, and how either of them hoped the night would end. For example, would she have invited him in just the same if Barnett had still been living there with her? I don't know - do you? The difference between us is that I see nothing wrong with exploring such avenues and looking at all the possibilites, while you seem to be the one narrowing your options until you have squeezed the life out of every last one.

Following the evidence where it leads is all very well when there is one clear path. But you can't tell me that applies in this case. If you honestly see only one path and one possible destination, I honestly think you must be kidding yourself.

Love,

Caz
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[caz]

Hi Caz
I am sure these women were used to living hand to mouth so what may seem desperate to us may not to a woman like kelly or even stride. and certainly they were not in as deperate a situation on their respective nights as where nichols, chapman and posibly eddowes. you can at least admit that, right?

Well up to a point, yes Abby. For example, I suppose Stride could have collected her green velvet and pawned or sold it to avoid sleeping rough that night, assuming she had no immediate plans to fall back on Kidney when heading to the club. But Kelly had nothing to give the rent man when he came to collect, so she was living under the threat of possible eviction at any time. I appreciate her younger age might have allowed her more complacency than the older victims. The young tend not to worry as much and imagine that something will "turn up". At the same time, someone with a roof over their head can feel more desperate under the threat of losing it than someone who is used to being on the streets and can fall no further.

any way, what does it really matter? Kelly and stride could easily have still ended up with the ripper even if they were not out solicitating, no?

Absolutely, Abby. It seems to matter more to Mike that they were not soliciting, but I really don't see the huge significance either way. Their killer(s) may not have known or given a damn in any case. If the ripper cared, he may just have assumed his victims were on the game whether they were or not.

Love,

Caz
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