4 or more unreasonable?

[Abby Normal]

The fact that the kidney was from someone with Bright's disease would not make him sick. The fact that it was a human kidney might, or the fact that it may have been tainted with fecal matter, or badly preserved, no matter what the Lusk letter said, are all better reasons for the kidney making him sick. If Eddowes was coincidentally a healthy carrier of typhoid, like Typhoid Mary Mallon, and JtR failed to rinse the kidney, or cook it well, then he could have gotten sick as a dog. But that has nothing to do with Bright's disease.

However, he could have coincidentally gotten sick from something else at the time he ate the kidney (assuming for argument that this did happen), and this could have led to something called the Garcia Effect, or conditioned taste aversion. It's instant classical conditioning, which happens to a person who experiences a nausea and vomiting episode, and developed a taste aversion for whatever was eaten within about 12 hours before, whether it had anything to do with the vomiting or not. The less common a food is in a person's diet, the more likely an aversion. If you drink coffee two or three times a day, every day, but you eat pecan pie only a couple of times a year, and you develop the pukes a fewn hours after coffee and pecan pie, you'll develop the aversion to pecan pie. The cause may have been viral, or it may have been the coffee, but pecan pie is what you can't stand the sight of.

So if JtR got sick from the kidney, or just around the time of it, it might have put him off his whole murdering behavior.

Anthony Burgess thought it would work.

If he got sick from eating the kidney, might explain the length of time in between the double event and MK murder.

[lynn cates]

J I

Hello Martin. Thanks for that.

Cheers.
LC

[RivkahChaya]

Thanks for explaining the more likely causes of an illness from that kidney. Why would Anthony Burgess have thought it would work? Did he use such a device in one of his novels?

Jeff

In A Clockwork Orange, aversive therapy is used in an attempt to reform a serial killer/rapist. He's given something that will induce serious nausea, then forced to watch movies where people commit violent crimes.

This actually is used, although voluntarily (well, so was the therapy in ACO, except it was offered as an alternative to life in prison, if I remember correctly), in the form of a drug called Antabuse, which nauseates you if you drink alcohol. You need a prescription to get it. No one in the US has ever been forced to take it, but sometimes it's a condition of probation or parole, for people who have already gone to rehab, and relapsed, or a condition of getting a license reinstated. It's not used so often now that breathalyzers are cheap an portable. A parolee can be told to go to his parole officer's office every single day, and blow into one. I think there are even some judges that will let people blow and show the display over Skye after six weeks of good blows. Some people request Antabuse, though. The Garcia effect was the only thing that worked for them, and every few years, they need a new exposure to maintain the effect.

Apparently, for some people, the taste aversion extends to vinegar, and they can't eat salad dressings with vinegar.

If he got sick from eating the kidney, might explain the length of time in between the double event and MK murder.

I'm surprised we never heard of someone with a horrible skin infection that progressed to septicemia. That knife must have been so filthy-- the blood of people possibly with STDs, and the fecal matter. Even the fecal matter of a person not known to have or been exposed to any disease, like hepatitis, or typhoid, and has no symptoms, like fever, or diarrhea, still have all sorts of things in their intestinal tract that you DO NOT want in your blood, and then there're the sorts of things that love metal, or wounds, like tetanus, and staph. One nick with that knife I'm certain would have been horrible.

If I were challenged to come up with a theory (or I were writing a novel), I'd say he nicked himself during the Eddowes murder, and that's what the apron was for, and then he got a horrible infection. Either that accounts for the time gap before Kelly, the savageness, and the desire to be some place better lit, or he died, and someone else did Kelly.

Again, if this were a novel, and not speculation on what really happened, I'd probably have him taking arsenic and mercury, which were experimental antibiotics at the time, and did work a little, but sometimes they killed more of the host than the infection. They also made people throw up, which made people dehydrated, and fevers worse. He could have been feverish, dehydrated, wigged out on heavy metal poisoning, and maybe opiates for pain, and on that one occasion, actually been the maniac people thought he was.

[martin wilson]

Hello Lynn.
You are more than welcome sir, for speed of uptake I rival continental drift, but the farthing has finally dropped.
I thought cui bono? was always the first question detectives asked.

[lynn cates]

cui bono

Hello MArtin. Thanks.

Cui bono should be a part of ANY investigation.

Cheers.
LC

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo Lynn

Hello MArtin. Thanks.

Cui bono should be a part of ANY investigation.

Cheers.
LC

Agreed. But does anyone appear to with any of these murders? Especially the ones with mutilations and pieces missing?

[Stephen Thomas]

does anyone appear to with any of these murders? Especially the ones with mutilations and pieces missing?

That is totally meaningless. Would you like to rephrase the post?

[lynn cates]

answer

Hello DLDW. Thanks.

I take it you are asking if anyone's good was served by the post-Annie murders?

That is precisely what some are trying to discover.

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Cui bono should be a part of ANY investigation.

Blimey Lynn, we've already got the C5 and now you want to introduce the U2?

All the best

Dave

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo Lynn

Has anyone come up with anything? Is there anything to suggest that any of these murders were motivated by anything else than someone wanting to kill, how you say, for the sake of killing? Sorry for the poor phrasing(s). Lack of sleep combined with exposure to horrid heat and humidity make my thinker mush. It's like breathing soup here. Annie, Polly, Martha. These women didn't really have anything and it seems they were irrelevant. Just more of the same. Maybe it is their being murdered that sets them apart, not that they were murdered for some reason other than they were available.

[lynn cates]

Sonny and Cher

Hello Dave. Thanks.

Cute. But at least no puns about Sonny and Cher. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

suggestive

Hello DLDW. Thanks.

"Is there anything to suggest that any of these murders were motivated by anything else than someone wanting to kill, how you say, for the sake of killing?"

Not sure there is even THAT suggestion; at least, it has no evidence to sustain it.

Cheers.
LC

[Digalittledeeperwatson]

Hullo Lynn

You know, like maybe a serial killer? Alright. Brain is def fried. Off to work.

[Cogidubnus]

Cute. But at least no puns about Sonny and Cher. (heh-heh)

Hi Lynn...No, like Bury I'm a cut above that...(how did I KNOW you'd say "Cute" - deja vu!)

Hi Dig...my read on it, like yours, is just that they were available...so cui bono doesn't really apply...and that's what makes serial killers so chilling I guess...the very randomness (to everyone else at least) of whose life gets snuffed out next...

All the best

Dave

[Paddy]

"Is there anything to suggest that any of these murders were motivated by anything else than someone wanting to kill, how you say, for the sake of killing?"

How about Elizabeth Strides murder being a decoy murder, to get all the police south of Commercial road so he could carry out his mutilations north of it while all the fuss was going on?

Pat.............................