Did Jack only kill 3?

[Debra A]

Hello Debs,

What you dont know always annoys.

Best wishes

Phil

Excuses.

[Monty]

Hello Monty,

No need to apologise.
Have you any evidence the epitaph wasnt started by an inventive newspapeman that has generally been accepted to be thenvemtor? That would be interesting to read.
Conclusive facts in this case are at a premium. There is nothing conclusive linking 'Jack the Ripper' to Stride's demise either.
Here's a billiard's term you'll understand Im sure.
Side spin.
And the last 124years is full of it in Ripper related police memoirs.

It's a shame the chalk writing wasnt from a small cube. 'cannon' was a popular make at the time in billiards..lol

Best wishes

Phil

Hi Phil,

I'm not stating that "We know the Jack the Ripper epitaph was a newpaperman's invention". You did.

I haven't the evidence to prove either was, that's why I wouldn't have stated such a thing. I wondered, as you did state such a thing, if there was something I missed.

It seems there wasn't and this 'knowledge' is assumption.

Yep, not everythings conclusive.


Monty

[Phil Carter]

Hello Monty,

I humbly suggest you ask around a bit. You might be surprised by what you are told.

Best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

Hello Debs,

What you dont know always annoys.

Best wishes

Phil

[Monty]

Hi Phil,
The problem is that whenever it is proposed that MJK may have been murdered because she had Irish connections and her murder Fenian related or that she was some sort of Fenian spy or informant re-located to live in Whitechapel and tracked down; even when an open-minded researcher reading those ideas thinks, OK, let's look at the possibility of this and begins to ask questions about such a scenario happening, the person who proposed the idea clammed up and won't answer the glaring problems highlighted with it. I'm thinking of a particular identity once proposed for MJK here recently and when detailed questions were asked about things that didn't really add up (a few facts got in the way!) the shutters were slammed down without a word of explanation and what can only amount to excuses made.

It's very annoying to sit here and read about those of 'us' who just sit back and accept the same old same old by people who aren't willing to put their own ideas up to closer scrutiny. They propose an idea and as soon as someone looks a bit closer and finds problems and asks about them they scurry off and hide behind some excuse or other as to why they can't say any more!

Excellent post Debs. Sums it up perfectly.

Monty

[Debra A]

I believe the key to the C5 murder is the total inability of every researcher to discover the slightest trace of one Mary Jane Kelly. One of the genre's very very best researchers, Chris Scott, has turned over more stones surrounding MJK than most all others. With his brilliant work in mind, I have concluded that MJK was not the true name of the C5 victim. That, in turn, opens up many a possibility. Here may, just may, lie the link to Irish Fenianism first mentioned not in 1956 in book form, but 1920 in newspaper form in an epitaph. Even this reference may originate in the newspaper articles from 1888 itself, when writing that specialised Irish anti-Fenian policemen were ushered into the fray. And all of this may single out Kelly from Eddowes.
However, one has to admit it being speculative at present.

Hi Phil,
The problem is that whenever it is proposed that MJK may have been murdered because she had Irish connections and her murder Fenian related or that she was some sort of Fenian spy or informant re-located to live in Whitechapel and tracked down; even when an open-minded researcher reading those ideas thinks, OK, let's look at the possibility of this and begins to ask questions about such a scenario happening, the person who proposed the idea clammed up and won't answer the glaring problems highlighted with it. I'm thinking of a particular identity once proposed for MJK here recently and when detailed questions were asked about things that didn't really add up (a few facts got in the way!) the shutters were slammed down without a word of explanation and what can only amount to excuses made.

It's very annoying to sit here and read about those of 'us' who just sit back and accept the same old same old by people who aren't willing to put their own ideas up to closer scrutiny. They propose an idea and as soon as someone looks a bit closer and finds problems and asks about them they scurry off and hide behind some excuse or other as to why they can't say any more!

[Phil Carter]

Hello Monty,

No need to apologise.
Have you any evidence the epitaph wasnt started by an inventive newspapeman that has generally been accepted to be thenvemtor? That would be interesting to read.
Conclusive facts in this case are at a premium. There is nothing conclusive linking 'Jack the Ripper' to Stride's demise either.
Here's a billiard's term you'll understand Im sure.
Side spin.
And the last 124years is full of it in Ripper related police memoirs.

It's a shame the chalk writing wasnt from a small cube. 'cannon' was a popular make at the time in billiards..lol

Best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

Good evening Simon,

Let's take a hypothetical and assume you are correct. That these were unconnected murders, each and every one.

Are you suggesting the police investigated each and every murder thoroughly enough to be certain that these were unconnected, yet the murders were nonethesless officially placed under the auspices of a ficticous JTR?

Or are you saying the police did not investigate each and every murder enough to know that these were unconnected, and that they mistakenly placed the murders under the auspices of a ficticous JTR.

Or is it something else?

Roy

Hello Roy,

(Forgive me Simon...)

I will venture to comparing Simon Wood to a snooker player facing an awkward snooker.
He may have found an angle or two, but we wont see it until he looks down the end of the cue, and shows us his shot.
i do know one thing. Sometimes it takes a combination of angles to find the answer to the snooker.

Best wishes

Phil

[Monty]

Hello Greg,

Well, not quite nothing. We know the Jack the Ripper epitaph was a newpaperman's invention. We know that the police, for a while at least, believed the invention and pushed the idea. (letter and postcard Dear Boss+Saucy Jack=posters). We know that the police didnt seem to have a clue until lo and behold their retirement memoirs were published. And we know that people left right and centre have been taken in by clever authors and idea makers like Stephen Knight and Joseph Gorman.

Best wishes

Phil

Sorry Phil,

How do we know the 'Jack the Ripper' epitaph was a newsmans invention? Have I missed this conclusive fact?

Also, there's a difference between following a line of enquiry and belief, the Police followed a line of enquiry.

Monty

[Phil Carter]

Out of the mouths of babes.
Tom Wescott

Hello Tom,

Indeed. An example again shown and quoted, above.. Lol

On a serious note, genuinely, how's the book coming along? Publisher lined up yet?

best wishes

Phil

[Phil Carter]

Bottom line, after 124 years, we know nothing..

Hello Greg,

Well, not quite nothing. We know the Jack the Ripper epitaph was a newpaperman's invention. We know that the police, for a while at least, believed the invention and pushed the idea. (letter and postcard Dear Boss+Saucy Jack=posters). We know that the police didnt seem to have a clue until lo and behold their retirement memoirs were published. And we know that people left right and centre have been taken in by clever authors and idea makers like Stephen Knight and Joseph Gorman.

Best wishes

Phil

[Roy Corduroy]

Why were a number of unconnected murders officially placed under the auspices of a fictitious JtR?

This is the essence of the real Whitechapel mystery.

Good evening Simon,

Let's take a hypothetical and assume you are correct. That these were unconnected murders, each and every one.

Are you suggesting the police investigated each and every murder thoroughly enough to be certain that these were unconnected, yet the murders were nonethesless officially placed under the auspices of a ficticous JTR?

Or are you saying the police did not investigate each and every murder enough to know that these were unconnected, and that they mistakenly placed the murders under the auspices of a ficticous JTR.

Or is it something else?

Roy

[Tom_Wescott]

Dahmer, for god's sake walked up to a pair of cops and talked them into giving one of his victim's back.

A naked, bloodied, 14 year old boy no less. It makes my blood boil to remember this. And those two cops were only fired, no other repercussions. Remarkable.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Ally]

What, I live alone - can't the police knock on my door?

Just how often do they do that? I mean, in the entire history of your life, how often has a random policeman come and knocked on your door for no apparent random reason?

Just how many policemen and WVC members were out looking for the killer? By cornering yourself in a small courtyard inside a tiny room, it doesn't leave much room for escape.

They were looking in the streets. They weren't looking inside people's homes.

Let's face it, Ted Bundy deliberately went to Texas because they still had the death penalty, so perhaps Jack did want to get caught. He would have spent more than just a few minutes boxed away in the room with MJK.

Okay first, Ted Bundy did not go to Texas. He went to Florida. And going to a state that has the death penalty has nothing to do with one's conscious desire to get caught. That's an opinion. That's not fact. Almost every serial killer has done something that was risky and could lead to capture. It is virtually impossible to NOT do a risky, possible to get caught move, when stalking and slaughtering human beings. Dahmer, for god's sake walked up to a pair of cops and talked them into giving one of his victim's back.

It's not indicative of a desire to get caught, it's indicative of a certain kind of ego, the thrill and their compulsion occasionally overriding their common sense.

[Tom_Wescott]

Thanks Phil Carter and Michael W Richards, I can see you both know your stuff.

Out of the mouths of babes.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott