Did Jack only kill 3?

[lynn cates]

Irish

Hello Greg. Thanks. Actually, have not read enough.

You might have a go at:

1. "Fenian Fire" by Christy Campbell.

2. "The Phoenix Park Murders" by Senan Molony.

Once those are finished you might try Tynan's own book (he was #1 of the Irish National Invincibles) and the account of the Cronin murder.

I'll send links if desired.

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Lynn,

According to some HO documents I'm trawling through at the moment, not everybody agreed that P.J. Tynan was No.1. Also aired are some dark suspicions [which I'm amazed survived redaction] concerning who exactly may have been behind the Phoenix Park murders.

Regards,

Simon

[GregBaron]

Al Gore's internet....

Hello Greg. Thanks. Actually, have not read enough.

You might have a go at:

1. "Fenian Fire" by Christy Campbell.

2. "The Phoenix Park Murders" by Senan Molony.

Once those are finished you might try Tynan's own book (he was #1 of the Irish National Invincibles) and the account of the Cronin murder.

I'll send links if desired.

Cheers.
LC

Stupendous Lynn, I was told the term Scottish Gentleman was an oxymoron - I may now have to reconsider...

I'll post these books to my wish list...

No need to send links, I've been told by youngsters there's a newfangled service called a search engine - it apparently provides information only 90% of which is bunk...........

I will conduct an analog search for one of these youngsters to see if they can help me out....


Greg

[lynn cates]

#1

Hello Simon. Thanks. I have heard one other name besides Tynan thrown out.

I await further discussion.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

link

Hello Greg. Thanks. I think the oxymoron was "free-spending Scotsman." (heh-heh)

Here is a link for my thread. Post #13 contains a link to the contemporary account of Dr. Cronin's murder.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5822

Cheers.
LC

[GregBaron]

Ice pick murder...

Hello Greg. Thanks. I think the oxymoron was "free-spending Scotsman." (heh-heh)

Here is a link for my thread. Post #13 contains a link to the contemporary account of Dr. Cronin's murder.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=5822

Cheers.
LC

Thanks kindly Lynn, I realized I had read that short synopsis of the Cronin murder. Much else to absorb however....

Much like a mob hit where Chicago has always been King....


Greg

[Bridewell]

Hello Colin. I understand what you mean.

How familiar are you with the Triangle faction of Clan-na-Gael and Alexander Sullivan? The Cronin murder?

Are you familiar with the details of the Irish National Invincibles and the Phoenix Park murders?

I should be glad to provide a bibliography upon request. And after close research, I find such a scenario with MJK altogether plausible.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

I confess to being largely ignorant in this area so, if there are examples of Fenians slicing women to pieces in this barbaric manner, I may have to reconsider. I'm a Doubting Thomas until I know of the examples though, but I note the suggested reading list and will keep an eye out for those titles.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Colin,

I tend not to rule out any possibilities, my one big exception being the existence of someone known as Jack the Ripper.

In amongst the many details of the murder of Dr. Cronin, whom some thought was a British spy murdered by Scotland Yard in order to stir up anti-Irish sentiment and obviate his appearance at the Special Commission, were associated reports of a woman having been hauled off in a trunk, sliced into small pieces and disposed of to disguise the fact she had died during an abortion.

Please don't shoot the messenger.

Regards,

Simon

[lynn cates]

time

Hello Greg. Thanks. Yes, much to absorb. But plenty of time for you young ones.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

the like

Hello Colin. Thanks. No Fenians. Of course, the Irish National Invincibles did a thorough job on Cavendish and Burke.

But for that matter, none of the other WCM were done quite like "MJK."

Conclusion?

Cheers.
LC

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Colin,

I tend not to rule out any possibilities, my one big exception being the existence of someone known as Jack the Ripper.

In amongst the many details of the murder of Dr. Cronin, whom some thought was a British spy murdered by Scotland Yard in order to stir up anti-Irish sentiment and obviate his appearance at the Special Commission, were associated reports of a woman having been hauled off in a trunk, sliced into small pieces and disposed of to disguise the fact she had died during an abortion.

Please don't shoot the messenger.

Regards,

Simon

Thats a very interesting bit of history Simon, thanks. Ill have to become more familiar with that particular crime.

What is plausible is that any faction involved in criminal activities within organizations that generated huge sums of money might well consider rash actions to protect that income or their liberty.

What Im suggesting about Kate, actually having knowledge of someone dangerous she felt might be behind the killings, might well spill over into the next murder, which drew the close attention of parliamentary members and Irish police. The names Kate uses might be her trail of breadcrumbs should anything happen to her during her attempt at blackmail.

As to what kind of reward was offered at the time Lynn, Im not sure what the total was at that time, a few hundred pounds, mostly privately donated reward monies and perhaps some vigilance committee rewards....but to someone who apparently had to pawn her boyfriends boots to have breakfast and tea, tempting enough I would imagine. Particularly if as in this scenario she was attempting to increase her rewards by negotiating with the devil.

On the issue of the pawn ticket and that story.....unless anyone can prove that Kate pawned them after hours on the Friday or that pawnbrokers, who would be open 7 days a week, would back date a ticket on a weekend, it appears that Kate pawned the boots as Jane Kelly on Friday night, not on Saturday morning, as John claimed.

Which to me proves that John Kelly lied when he gave his Saturday morning story.

Why did Kelly feel the truth wasnt sufficient? Why would it be a problem if they actually had some money in hand on Friday night? Was that money used by Kate to find whom she was looking for, maybe a pub crawl, or used to buy information on how to contact him?

Seriously though, why lie about when the boots were pawned?

Just speculatin.

Best regards,

Michael

[lynn cates]

mere pawns

Hello Mike. Thanks. Regarding the boot pawning, you might have a go at John's interview in "The Echo." There it sounds like there was no Saturday pawning.

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Michael,

The boots had to be pawned on Saturday to support Kelly's contention that, because of a lack of funds, Eddowes was forced to spend Friday night at the Mile End Casual Ward.

Kindly consider this exchange—

[Crawford?] "Seeing the date on the tickets, cannot you recollect when the pawning took place?"

[John Kelly] "I cannot say, I am so muddled up. It was either Friday or Saturday."

[Coroner] "Had you been drinking when the pawning took place?"

[John Kelly] "Yes."

How? Prior to pawning the boots they hadn't got a penny between them.

John Kelly's story has more holes than a tramp's vest.

Regards,

Simon

[lynn cates]

a nonsense

Hello Simon. And this brings up an interesting question.

It makes perfect sense for two people who are broke to spend 2d each and go to Shoe Lane Casual Ward. But it makes no sense whatsoever for both to separate the next night--one to Mile End; one to Cooney's. Why not both back at Shoe lane?

Cheers.
LC

[Simon Wood]

Hi Lynn,

I wish you'd stop asking logical questions.

Regards,

Simon