Elderly prostitute - young client?

[K-453]

our JTR well..... flipping heck, his women look like old boiler room hags!

No … On their mortuary photos, but I noticed, most of them are described as looking younger than they were.
Polly was said to look ten years younger.
The people who found Liz said they thought she was 25 – 28 years, but she was 46! Okay, it was dark, and they were all shocked, this blurred their perception.
Kate had the frame of a teenager, as we all know very well from her mortuary photos. As far as her face is still recognizable, she must have been quite pretty and also younger looking.

Surprising, regarding their lifestyle.

Annie was a bit of an exception. She was undernourished and ill.
By the way, she was the victim who was killed at dawn instead of at midnight. A killer desperately searching the streets and finally settling with what was available? (Apologies to Annie.)

Mary Jane, of course, really was younger.

Alive, they all must have been looking acceptable, pretty maybe.

[Wickerman]

I would suspect alot of people, kids included, saw more than they ever let on. Whatever the street kids saw is hardly likely to make it to the police or press. It's very possible many of those kids were either 'wanted' or simply not believed, they didn't appear to have a good relationship with the authorities.

Then there's the other side of the argument, suppose the killer was someone like "Bill Sykes", everybody knew his violent reputation, he might have ruled the streets, and 'you' see him alone with a 'victim'.
Who do you tell?, who would believe you?, and when Sykes finds out what you said, who is going to come looking for you, and your family!

See nothing, hear nothing, say nothing...

Regards, Jon S.

[DanaeChantel]

It is an interesting thought about the multitudes of street kids back in the day, in London. These kids were known as "Street Urchins". They had a choice, they could go to the factory with the other kiddies, or try their luck in the streets, the later, of course being more preferable to working in a dark factory under a tyrant of a boss/leader/guvnah . . whatnot . . . I believe what someone was referring to when they mentioned the multitude of streetkids, is the fact that they were always out and about, lurching in corners and milling about waiting for victims themselves. Most of them were pickpockets, and little thugs. They would pick the pockets of anyone who was nearby and many had their own little game plans.

Funny how these kids never saw anything or that none of them went looking for Jack themselves, considering the "andsome" (cockney accent) reward they could have received. It is also interesting that none of the kids witnessed anything pertaining to the murders, or that they saw anything or were questioned. They would have been the ones who would have seen something odd, as they were in the streets all hours of the day and nights having no one to answer to and most had no place to live other than in some doorway or dark corner. They hung around anyone who looked as if they might be "prime pickens". Picking a gents pocket while he was drunk or busy bangin some "ore" (cockney accent again) in an alley would have been right on their list.

So, yes, the kids, or rather "street urchins" would have likely been the ones to see something, rather than a bunch of drunkards, or wretches, prostitutes and the like. Kids back in those days were sharp witted, they had to be, they had no choice. They had a raw edge and wit that was not to be matched by many, not even the police.

[Malcolm X]

Ask Mr. Berlusconi!

ha ha, yes but he only targets clean sexy young women....... lucky sod and dont for one minute think that they dont want it..

our JTR well..... flipping heck, his women look like old boiler room hags!

try this........maybe he was killing prostitutes simply because they were extremely vulnerable, he never tortured them first, so this isn't about sexual sadism or even sexual, i think it's a mixture of hatred and later on anti-semetism.... it will be a similar mindset to P.Sutcliffe, but not T.Bundy, he's totally diufferent

there is no human in the world easier to kill than a prostitute waiting on her own in a dark street, and i am quite shocked that they dont realise just how vulnerable they are, maybe they do !

[GregBaron]

What kind of loser?

Ask Mr. Berlusconi!

Good one K-453!


And some scoundrels want it for free...


Greg

[K-453]

If you're such a loser that you have to pay someone to have sex with you, how choosy are you going to be?

Ask Mr. Berlusconi!

[Garza]

I have an idea that after Nichols and Chapman JTR wanted a "better looking" girl, hence why on the double event night he went out earlier than usual to find a victim. The best looking girls usually earned enough by the early hours to go home, while the older, more haggard had to ply their trade really late.

Also the double event is the first time he attacked the face, the symbol of female beauty, maybe not intent on ripping the internal sexuality of a woman he actually wanted a beautiful "by Whitechapel standards" face to destroy.

Just an idea.

[tji]

Hi all

Maybe he went for the older women as substitute mother figures, not for sexual urges. Just becasue he picked prostitutes didn't mean he wanted sex, they were just easy access.

Tj

[Errata]

Personally I think Jack was very particular about his victims, and one of the requirements was that they were older prostitutes. If it was simply a matter of accessibility, any number of rag pickers, house servants on the way to work, drunks... whatever would have been available to him, and it seems statistically probable that he would have killed at least one scrub woman.

While the economics of the sex trade make it unlikely for a young man to be able to afford a young prostitute, remember that Jack did not have to afford one. He just had to convince a young girl he could afford her. It's not like he would actually be paying her. So he had the option... he just didn't take it.

Obviously availability matters. But in Jack's case, I don't think it dictated his choice of victim. His choice of victim happened to be easy to prey upon.

[sdreid]

If you're such a loser that you have to pay someone to have sex with you, how choosy are you going to be?

[caz]

Wouldn’t it be a bit strange anyway, when a man of, say, 30 years shows interest in a prostitute in her 40s? Wouldn’t he rather be expected to look for one who is younger than he is?

Again, it all depends if he is looking for a portion of sex or a slice of mutilation. Harold Shipman showed interest in old men and women when he wanted to play God and do them in. I have no idea what his sexual tastes were, but it can be a whole different ball game, depending on the availability and vulnerability of a certain victim type to the individual serial offender.

Horses for courses, if you will.

Love,

Caz
X

[Supe]

Wouldn’t it be a bit strange anyway, when a man of, say, 30 years shows interest in a prostitute in her 40s? Wouldn’t he rather be expected to look for one who is younger than he is?

Wayne Rooney might have something to say on the subject.

Don.

[K-453]

At least as witnesses and curious bystanders ....


I just happened to find this post on a different thread:

I found an interesting bit of information in a book called Found Naked and Dead, The facts behind the Thames-side murders, by Brian McConnell. According to Mr. McConnell the Criminal Law Amendment Act of 1885 was used to protect the young and prevent procuration. The act carried some pretty stiff fines and sentences. Worse were in store for defiling a girl from between 13 and 16: for that penal servitude from five years to life imprisonment was the stern penalty. A direct quote from Mr. McConnell "Before long the people were asking were had all the young girls gone? Cleared off the streets,cleared out of the pubs,cleared out of the brothels, by the frightened keepers."
If this is true, then it looks like Jack the Ripper had little choice in his type of victim, at least as far as age was concerned.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=4807&page=4

Quite answers my question.

[K-453]

At least as witnesses and curious bystanders ....


I just happened to find this post on a different thread:

I found an interesting bit of information in a book called Found Naked and Dead, The facts behind the Thames-side murders, by Brian McConnell. According to Mr. McConnell the Criminal Law Amendment Act of 1885 was used to protect the young and prevent procuration. The act carried some pretty stiff fines and sentences. Worse were in store for defiling a girl from between 13 and 16: for that penal servitude from five years to life imprisonment was the stern penalty. A direct quote from Mr. McConnell "Before long the people were asking were had all the young girls gone? Cleared off the streets,cleared out of the pubs,cleared out of the brothels, by the frightened keepers."
If this is true, then it looks like Jack the Ripper had little choice in his type of victim, at least as far as age was concerned.

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=4807&page=4

Quite answers my question.

[Rubyretro]

I thought about this a bit more.

What about street kids? There must have been hundreds of homeless, or at least not much cared for, children and youths of all ages. But in the Ripper case they seem to be completely absent.

In what way would you have expected children to have been involved in this
'story' ?