Probability of Double Event

[Fisherman]

Jane Coram:

"the manner in which she was killed was the same as with the other victims; lying her down, making sure that the spray went down into the ground or the drain rather than spraying over him. It was still a very efficiently executed murder, by someone that knew what they were doing .... It could certainly be possible for two different killers to kill two women by cutting their throats in one night - in fact that's proved by the murder in Westminster - but to use a method so similiar to that used by Jack seems very unlikely indeed in my opinion."

Hi Jane! Good, as always, to see you around!

I would like to point a few things out in connection with all of this. To begin with, if the parametres you mention all point to a very efficient murderer, well versed in what he was doing, then it ought to be added that Frances Colesī killer would have belonged to the same rare breed. He also laid her down, he also tilted her to avoid getting stained, and he apparently knew how to kill, since Coles died, albeit after some small time during which she managed to lift an eyelid, and close it again. Very much resembles Stride, who may have lived for a minute and a half after the cut, according to Blackwellīs estimation.

As for the obligatory assertions that Strides killer knew where to cut, I think it can be said that there are only so many ways to cut a throat. If you lift the chin, and apply the blade to the side of the neck and cut away in a powerful stroke, you will be awarded the role of a cunning killer. That, basically, would be what Strides killer did, and that, just as basically, would be what just about every killer would do who cuts somebodys neck from behind, holding on to the chin as they do so. It is, as you Brits so aptly phrase it, not rocket science, is it? It is a killing method that has dispatched tens of thousands of people throughout history, to make only the carefullest of guesses.

Of course there are similarities between Stride and the canonicals, just as you say. But when it comes to assessing it all, it is interesting to point out that amongst the series of canonical Ripper killings, we have one murder where there were no mutilations, we have one murder where it can be shown that the victim had an affectionate meeting a short time before her death, we have one murder that was before bedtime for the pub audience, we have one murder that happened in a street that was not reputed to belong to the red light district, we have one murder where the victim was never on her back - and for some peculiar reason, ALL of these deviations belong to the same murder.

That has always made me wonder.

The best,
Fisherman

[c.d.]

You might as well bring up statistics showing how many women died that night from any cause be it illness, childbirth or being run over with a cart and then use that to show that it was normal for women to die on any given night.

Tom is right. It is completely disengenous.

c.d.

[Tom_Wescott]

It's disingenous. She was not a prostitute and was killed in her home by her husband with a knife in a very sloppy fashion. Had the man owned a gun, we wouldn't be making any comparison. And it has no bearing at all on Stride, who was not killed by a boyfriend or husband, who was not murdered at home, and was dispatched in a professional manner.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[c.d.]

Hi Fisherman,

Was she a prostitute and the killer and the motive unknown?

c.d.

[Fisherman]

Well, Tom, it was a murder where the killer cut the neck of his wife down to the bone. And it was a throat-cutting that occured on the exact same night as the two single events. And scores of Jack-would-have-killed-Stride apprentices have used lots of energy trying to convince the world that this kind of killing is so extremely unusual that we may safely look away from any other possibility than Jack being the perpetrator.
Surely you canīt be all THAT baffled that it is brought up in these discussions ...?

The best,
Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

It could certainly be possible for two different killers to kill two women by cutting their throats in one night - in fact that's proved by the murder in Westminster - but to use a method so similiar to that used by Jack seems very unlikely indeed in my opinion.

This Westminster murder, which was brought to the wide attention of Ripperphiles in Evans & Skinner's 'Ultimate', refers to a husband killing his wife with a knife, in an extremely different manner than the Ripper offed Stride and Eddowes. I've always found this bit of editorializing in an otherwise unbiased book to be quite frustrating, particularly since it's constantly brought up on here, assumed to be relevant in the discussion of the 'double event.' It was a common every day domestic homicide, whereas Stride/Eddowes, etc were anything but common. And they didn't happen merely on 'the same night', they happened in 'the same hour'.

I realize Jane was saying basically the same thing as myself, so the above was not aimed at her in any way, just hoping to enlighten those who might realize what the 'third murder' being referred to here is.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[c.d.]

Go easy on that Swedish sarcasm, Fish. It is just too damn subtle for us Americans.

c.d.

[Fisherman]

Thanks, C.d. It feels all warm in here.

The best,
Fisherman

[c.d.]

C.d:

"Say what???"

Well, you know, C.d: Stride was killed at the same place, in the same instant, in the same manner, for the same reasons and with the same sordid smile on her lips as all the other four canonicals. Thatīs how we know she belonged to the tally. She is unique in this respect.

ps-irony-ps-irony-ps-irony-ps-irony-ps-irony-ps-irony-ps-irony

The best,
Fisherman

I knew you would see the light someday, Fish. Welcome to our side.

c.d.

[c.d.]

I think it is kind of arrogant to think that a serial killer can only kill at a time and place of which we approve.

c.d.

[Jane Coram]

Hi,

Just a quick one. The silk scarf could have had a considerable effect on the wound, even if it was the same knife.

If the knife frayed the edge of the scarf, then it could well have made it harder to cut to the same depth and severity; the fabric would have impeded the progress the knife made through the flesh. Try cutting something through a silk scarf and see just how hard it makes it.

As Don said, the manner in which she was killed was the same as with the other victims; lying her down, making sure that the spray went down into the ground or the drain rather than spraying over him. It was still a very efficiently executed murder, by someone that knew what they were doing. (That's not meant to sound like praise by the way!)

It could certainly be possible for two different killers to kill two women by cutting their throats in one night - in fact that's proved by the murder in Westminster - but to use a method so similiar to that used by Jack seems very unlikely indeed in my opinion.

Hugs

Janie

xxxx

[Fisherman]

C.d:

"Say what???"

Well, you know, C.d: Stride was killed at the same place, in the same instant, in the same manner, for the same reasons and with the same sordid smile on her lips as all the other four canonicals. Thatīs how we know she belonged to the tally. She is unique in this respect.

ps-irony-ps-irony-ps-irony-ps-irony-ps-irony-ps-irony-ps-irony

The best,
Fisherman

[Tom_Wescott]

I also notice you have failed to respond to post 72 on the profiling thread I posted did the questions cause you some difficulty in being able to give an answer.

Either I didn't see it, or your 'point' made zero sense, like the one you just tried to make about Stride.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[c.d.]

Say what???

c.d.

[Fisherman]

C.D:

"Weren't all of the C5 killed in different locations and at different times?"

Yeah, all of them but Stride, C.d!

The best,
Fisherman