Double Event, or Triple Event?

[Trevor Marriott]

I think its about time some of you posters on here started producing evidence in support of some of you absolutley ridiculous theories

All we keep seeing are posts starting or containing the words "I think"
Are we really interseted in what you think, no we are not. We are interested in actual proven facts which we are more than happy to discuss sensibly.

[The Good Michael]

In the words of Fu Manchu "The world shall here from me again"

Well, let's give Fu a little credit for spelling as well as could be expected from an ESL learner.

Mike

[DVV]

I'm just waiting for my Si Fan card.
And I can't wait.

Amitiés,
Dacoit

[j.r-ahde]

Hello you all!

An interesting thread.

But one thing; Were these three ladies the only murdered women that night?!

All the best
Jukka

[The Good Michael]

But one thing; Were these three ladies the only murdered women that night?!

Jukka, according to some, 3 a night was business as usual. I ain't buying it though.

Cheers,

Mike

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Good Michael!

Well, I've read, that LVP Lond was the safest big city at the time!

All the best
Jukka

[Garry Wroe]

We cant be certain of the Rippers Mental State....but profiling suggests Schizophrenia as the most probable answer..

Assuming that you’re here referring to the FBI profile, Pirate, I would advise against accepting its conclusions uncritically. Its principal flaw lies in the reality that it was compiled with insufficient knowledge of the Ripper’s crime scene behaviour and the social milieu in which he operated. We can be reasonably certain, for example, that the killer engaged both Chapman and Eddowes in pre-crime conversation. Since neither woman beat a hasty retreat, it is highly unlikely that the killer exhibited any overt indication of homicidal schizophrenia. It will be remembered too that Nichols and Chapman were killed extremely close to rooms whose occupants slept obliviously through the attacks. In Mitre Square, nightwatchman George Morris perceived nothing of the carnage that was unfolding just yards away. A similar criterion may be applied to the Miller’s Court murder. Two broken window panes allowed sound from within the room to escape into a densely populated court, yet not a single near-neighbour suspected anything untoward as Kelly was attacked, subdued and butchered.

Schizophrenia is one of the psychoses. During florid episodes, the host becomes psychologically disconnected from reality. Behaviours take on an increasingly bizarre quality, thought processes become distorted and illogical, and even speech may be affected to the extent that it becomes unintelligible to outsiders. On the rare occasions that schizophrenics kill, it is almost invariably as a consequence of the ‘voices’ which direct their behaviours. Such crimes are therefore spontaneous, blitz-like affairs bereft of finesse or advance planning. Compare this to the control exercised by the Whitechapel Murderer in context of his victims and crime scenes and the difference is like night and day. A schizophrenic Ripper might have got lucky once, twice perhaps at a stretch. But the possibility of four consecutive instances of singular good fortune is all but nonexistent. Hence the notion of Kosminski as a viable Ripper suspect is a non-starter, irrespective of Anderson’s stated conviction to the contrary.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[Roy Corduroy]

Hi Garry,

Since we're talking motive and mental state, the Ripper could have been angry at contracting syphilis and takes out his revenge on the most vulnerable of the prostitute class, the unfortunates of Whitechapel. Because syphilis brings on mental instablilty, it could be a package deal.

Roy

[Hunter]

Hi Gary,

When it comes to profiling, insufficient knowledge is the key when attempting to place a mental label on JTR, as you pointed out.

John Douglas, the FBI profiler that participated in the 1988 TV special on JTR, hosted by Peter Ustinov, and indeed came to the conclusion at that time that Kosminski fit the bill, later retracted that belief when he became aware of other information concerning Kosminski.

It's likely that JTR suffered some kind of mental derangement coupled with morbid fantasies- given the suddeness of the assaults and the fury of the mutilations. But he nevertheless, appeared able to veil his intent to the unwary victims quite well until the moment he struck. As you stated, if his mental difficulties were very apparent, he probably wouldn't have made it past his first, maybe second victim before he caught someone's attention.

The police were looking for an obviously insane man, surviving records reveal that much, but his insanity may not have been that obvious. Ted Bundy was able to deceive others for a much longer period of time.

Roy's syphilis theory is something others have contemplated for a long time- especially given the progression of the disease if left untreated and, as you say, Roy, provides a motive as well. He could have progressed to the point that he simply could no longer function after the last murder.

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Gary,

When it comes to profiling, insufficient knowledge is the key when attempting to place a mental label on JTR, as you pointed out.

John Douglas, the FBI profiler that participated in the 1988 TV special on JTR, hosted by Peter Ustinov, and indeed came to the conclusion at that time that Kosminski fit the bill, later retracted that belief when he became aware of other information concerning Kosminski.

It's likely that JTR suffered some kind of mental derangement coupled with morbid fantasies- given the suddeness of the assaults and the fury of the mutilations. But he nevertheless, appeared able to veil his intent to the unwary victims quite well until the moment he struck. As you stated, if his mental difficulties were very apparent, he probably wouldn't have made it past his first, maybe second victim before he caught someone's attention.

The police were looking for an obviously insane man, surviving records reveil that much, but his insanity may not have been that obvious. Ted Bundy was able to deceive others for a much longer period of time.

Roy's syphilis theory is something others have contemplated for a long time- especially given the progression of the disease if left untreated and, as you say, Roy, provides a motive as well. He could have progressed to the point that he simply could no longer function after the last murder.

Why all this suggestion that JTR was insane not every serial killer is proved to be insane. Some may try to pull the wool over the authorities when they get caught by saying they are. But many are quite sane at the time of committing their murders and fully repsonsible for their actions.
Take Ted Bundy he was cool calculating and very precise with his planning of his murders and his execution of his plans.

JTR showed many signs of being organised suggesting that he was not as insane as some of you would have us beleive.

As for criminal profilers personally I wouldnt give them the time of day profiling is not an art or a science its purely guess work.

[Hunter]

Hi Trevor,

I wasn't suggesting that Jack was insane, just that many of the police seemed to think so. Everything in my post was entirely conjecture.

I agree with your post entirely. I think you are spot on about profiling.

An early Happy St. Patricks Day to ya my friend.

[Garry Wroe]

Since we're talking motive and mental state, the Ripper could have been angry at contracting syphilis and takes out his revenge on the most vulnerable of the prostitute class, the unfortunates of Whitechapel. Because syphilis brings on mental instablilty, it could be a package deal.

Unfortunately, Roy, since my knowledge of the clinical effects of syphilis is extremely limited, I’m unaware of how it might in its latter stages affect the psychology and therefore the behaviour of the sufferer. But if it is sufficient to induce psychosis, I will merely repeat that, whatever his identity, Jack the Ripper exercised tremendous control over his victims and crime scenes, so the notion of him having been debilitated by severe mental impairment is, in my view, entirely flawed.

It's likely that JTR suffered some kind of mental derangement coupled with morbid fantasies- given the suddeness of the assaults and the fury of the mutilations. But he nevertheless, appeared able to veil his intent to the unwary victims quite well until the moment he struck. As you stated, if his mental difficulties were very apparent, he probably wouldn't have made it past his first, maybe second victim before he caught someone's attention.

Absolutely, Hunter. To my mind our man was very much an Arthur Shawcross type of offender – an unsophisticated alpha male who preyed on women of a lowly social status and resorted to acts of cannibalism. And Shawcross betrayed no hint of schizophrenia, nor for that matter any other form of severe mental disease. He simply enjoyed killing.

JTR showed many signs of being organised suggesting that he was not as insane as some of you would have us beleive.

Precisely the point I have been arguing for years, Trevor.

As for criminal profilers personally I wouldnt give them the time of day profiling is not an art or a science its purely guess work.

Not when it is done responsibly, Trevor. Profiling is an art based upon the science of psychology (the empirical study of mind and behaviour). It does not and was never intended to ‘catch’ offenders. It is merely a screening tool which, when applied appropriately, allows investigators to narrow their search parameters, thereby saving time, effort, money and sometimes lives.

Unfortunately, profiling became ‘sexy’ and attracted too many practitioners whose egos far outweighed their abilities. But this should not be a reflection of profiling as an investigative tool. To suggest otherwise is akin to blaming the cow when an incompetent chef burns your sirloin steak.

Regards.

Garry Wroe.

[mattwill]

Wait a minute...
Syphilis? Manic depressive? Pretends to be insane, but not really? like Ted Bundy possibly? Blitz style attack? Violent?

Sounds like James Kelly. Too bad he wasn't a doctor or in Whitechapel at the time, we might have a suspect.

[Sickert]

Double not Triple

The Ripper Killed 2 that night not 3. Just because Brown killed his wife on the same night doesn't make him JTR.