Victim Strangulation - Manual or rope?

[Uncle Jack]

A thread for the discussion of the alleged strangulation of the victims. If Jack did strangle his victims before cutting the throats, then do you think the medical evidence points to manual strangulation or that he used a rope or cord? Your thoughts and personal opinions?

[kensei]

Definitely hands, not rope. Wouldn't there be a very evident rope burn? I have trouble with an image of the Ripper filling his pockets with multiple "tools of the trade" beyond his blades.

[Uncle Jack]

I tend to agree. I see our man as a hands sort of fellow.

[doris]

as i have said before i know very little about JTR, I have only been interested in him for a few weeks and I have only read 30 books or thereabouts.

BUt Iam fairly certain that all the C. victims were strangled manually to insensibilty before cutting commenced.

doris

hullo uncle jack, as you may have noticed I live in grantham which is awfully near to you. when I go to london to look at the sites on a train in the near future would you care to accompany me?

if so contact me at karl.lambley@btinternet.com

[chudmuskett]

hullo uncle jack, as you may have noticed I live in grantham which is awfully near to you. when I go to london to look at the sites on a train in the near future would you care to accompany me?[/email]

LOL, no reply, I would take that as a no then

[Uncle Jack]

I'll reply via Email Karl.

[Gman992]

Most likely, since he may have been a "gentleman," even though not being a Toff, he let the ladies go first to where they were going, wrapped his arm around their throats in a choke hold and squeezed. From what I've seen, choaking a person while looking at them, would allow them time to fight back, and would be very hard vis a vis your choking angle

[belinda]

Manual.There is no mention in any of the Post Mortem reports of anything to indicate use of rope or any other extraneous device.

[Moon-Shadow30]

He must have used his hands, there were no marks on the victims necks to suggest anything like rope was used.

[Garza]

Depends on the material of the ligature device while strangling, if the material of the ligature object is soft there may be no marks.

[smezenen]

My opinion is manual strangulation from behind using his arms, not his hands. For those that don’t know my background I am retired military (now working for the military as a battlefield forensics analyst) with some specialization in Hand to Hand fighting. I taught various techniques while instructing at the U.S. Army’s ground fighting school. After looking at the evidence in the autopsy reports I would suggest that a choke similar to the Rear-naked Choke would be the best fit. This type of choke when applied right will usually not leave any marks or bruising it actually takes very little pressure and is very fast. It is a blood choke which means unconsciousness in just a few seconds instead of minutes. Check out this video http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5207695
Manual strangulation from the front takes about 4 minutes and is actually very hard to complete with the victim struggling and fighting back so I would rule it out.
If a ligature were used it would certainly leave a mark. Even soft materials like cloth would roll and bunch up causing pinch marks and abrasions. A material like a wide leather strap or belt will leave 2 parallel marks that indicate the edges.

[corey123]

I second Smezenens post, aside from the U.S Army part, no liguiture means no rope, cloth, hemp, etc.

[Scorpio]

Long Liz was supposedly strangled with her own scarf, but i dont recall any tell-tale abrasions noted in the inquest. Perhaps,if the scarf was made from some silky material, like the ones used by some assassin cults from Asia, then no abrasions would remain.

[corey123]

Scorpio,

She wasnt strangled. Hence there would be no liguiture.

[smezenen]

Scorpio,
I think you said it all yourself "supposedly", I take that to mean not proven. In fact I will use the same inquest testimony of DR. Philips that you mentioned to point out that he never suggests that she was strangled, in fact when questioned by the Coroner as to the cause of death he stated "Undoubtedly the loss of blood from the left carotid artery and the division of the windpipe". His only comment in the entire testimony about anything around her neck was "silk handkerchief round throat, slightly torn (so is my note, but I since find it is cut)".
I see no mention of a scarf only a handkerchief, very different pieces of clothing in my mind.
A handkerchief also known as a triangle tie (similar to an ascot worn by a gentleman) is a small square shaped piece of cloth folded in half to form a triangle and loosely tied around the neck.
There are actually many different types of scarf but the 2 most common types are the high neck scarf which is formal piece more like a collar and the most common, a simple scarf being a long wide thicker piece of material worn around the neck to keep warm. As evidence I submit the three pictures below.