Victim Conversation (off-topic moved)

[c.d.]

Paul Webb saves the day...but in this case no as AP's train derailed worse than Leahys.

I am still trying to figure out what my being raped by a middle class LVPer has to do with anything under discussion.

Well, you are still ahead of me. I'm still trying to figure out this whole discussion, period. 165 posts? I smell dead horses.

c.d.

[Ally]

Yeah I am starting to get the whiff as well. We'll see.

[Cap'n Jack]

Cap'n Jack to you, Ally, as I expect you to accord me good self the same respect you offer to other posters who post under an assumed identity, like SPE. We all like to get away from ourselves.
I'll ask you kindly to permit, and respect, my freedom to do so without let or hinderance. Thank you kindly.
Now to business.

'Would you rather make a match
or sell your snatch?
You'll die if you do one
and you'll die if you do other
support your son
and be a good mother
to give up your daughter
to the man who bought her?'

You are out of whack here, Ally, by a century.
You better bat well.
best wishes, from 'ell.

[Ally]

What a crock of crap,
and rhyming claptrap.
Not a one of these whores
Had a scenario like yours.
They peddled their ass
To put gin in their glass.
Not food on a kid's table.
That's your fairy fable.

[Jeff Leahy]

Well that’s good we have now established something on which we are all agreed (apart from the fact that Tom is a D**k Head) namely that women who drink are not necessarily ‘Bad Mothers’ and that women who are prostitutes ‘are not necessarily ‘bad mothers’

So what does Ally turn to? Abandonment as her BAD mother criteria.

OK lets have a better look at Allys claim.

1. Emma Smith – children grown up
2. Martha Tabram- possibly Abandoned children. Facts unclear.
3. Poly Nichols- Successfully brings up her children for 15 years before her husband has an affair. Forced to leave.
4. Chapman- abandoned her children.
5. Stride- child still born. Doesn’t abandon children.
6. Eddowes- Children grown up. Boys taken away.
7. Kelly- doesn’t abandon children.
8. Mylett- doesn’t abandon children.

So by Ally’s own criteria only around 25% of the Victims actually abandon their children and yet Ally tars and brushes them all as BAD MOTHERS.

Would it surprise anyone that Tom has again chosen the losing side?

Pirate

[Ally]

Polly left her husband several times before the final split. It was bullcrap that the husband had an affair and that led to the break up. The fact is, she would go on drinking binges and leave. Not the other way around.

So basically all of the women who were mothers (and Martha's circumstances are fairly clear unless you think five and 3 year olds can be hidden)...all women with living children either abandoned them totally or were such crap that their adult children wanted nothing to do with them.

Those are the actual facts.


1. Emma Smith – Isn't even a Ripper victim so useless for this discussion but...children grown up *and want nothing to do with her*
2. Martha Tabram- possibly Abandoned children. Facts unclear. Yeah because 3 and five year olds vanish all the time.
3. Poly Nichols- . *actually abandons her family time and time again until she finally ditches them permanently in 81.
4. Chapman- abandoned her children.
5. Stride- child still born. Doesn’t abandon children.
6. Eddowes- Children grown up. Boys taken away. And grown daughter wants nothign to do with her.
7. Kelly- doesn’t abandon children.
8. Mylett- Isn't a ripper victim at all or even possible so useless for this discussion but ...where are her kids?

[Jeff Leahy]

Polly left her husband several times before the final split. It was bullcrap that the husband had an affair and that led to the break up. The fact is, she would go on drinking binges and leave. Not the other way around.

So basically all of the women who were mothers (and Martha's circumstances are fairly clear unless you think five and 3 year olds can be hidden)...all women with living children either abandoned them totally or were such crap that their adult children wanted nothing to do with them.

Those are the actual facts.


1. Emma Smith – Isn't even a Ripper victim so useless for this discussion but...children grown up *and want nothing to do with her*
2. Martha Tabram- possibly Abandoned children. Facts unclear. Yeah because 3 and five year olds vanish all the time.
3. Poly Nichols- . *actually abandons her family time and time again until she finally ditches them permanently in 81.
4. Chapman- abandoned her children.
5. Stride- child still born. Doesn’t abandon children.
6. Eddowes- Children grown up. Boys taken away. And grown daughter wants nothign to do with her.
7. Kelly- doesn’t abandon children.
8. Mylett- Isn't a ripper victim at all or even possible so useless for this discussion but ...where are her kids?

Unless my maths is out you still havent made 50%. And by your own admission they did not all abandon their children, which proves me totally vindicated in my claim that they were NOT all bad mothers..

You lost to the Pirate fair and square now eat humble pie

pirate

[Ally]

Your maths are as off as 2 + 2 not equaling four. Out of the women who were mothers with living children so that their motherhood status can actually be judged it's 100% bad mothers.

I realize someone who is confused by the most basic of arithmetic would have a problem with percentages but..100 percent craptastic mothers. 100 percent abandoned or grown children who want nothing to do with them whatsoever.

[Tom_Wescott]

apart from the fact that Tom is a D**k Head

2 + 2 = 4.

Would it surprise anyone that Tom has again chosen the losing side?

It might, since I don't recall having done so before. But then, I don't recall having entered a competition, either. And wasn't this argument between you (2) and Ally (2) with the rest of us (4) just offering our tuppence here and there? When did this become about me? Why is that that all the mouthbreathers feel they have to try and build their self-worth by taking me on?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Tom_Wescott]

Unless my maths is out

I just saw this. My God, Ally, how are you keeping a straight face in this discussion?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Jeff Leahy]

No Ally we only really know as Fact that Chapman Abandoned her children. And there is no evidence that she was a 'Bad Mother' just that she was a sad alcoholic whose life was destroyed by the booze. We know that she came off the bottle for a few years, and its more than possible that her children loved her very much...most children do, its people like you that point the finger..

I must admit that my practical experience for childrens love for there mothers comes through practical experience in the Hammersmith Nude case.

However you clearly lost this argument by your own criteria, Many thanks for the laughter and enjoyment your collapsed reasoning bought me...

I do so enjoy a little heartless gloating following a minor casebook victory

Bye all

Lov ya Pirate

[c.d.]

Cause you da man, Tom!!!

"If you want to be the man, you got to beat the man." Woooooooo
Nature Boy Ric Flair

c.d.

[Jeff Leahy]

I just saw this. My God, Ally, how are you keeping a straight face in this discussion?

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Give up Tom this battle has been won and buried

[Ally]

Hi Tom,

Because there's nothing more entertaining than an idiot crowing his victory when everyone but he is perfectly aware he lost.

But you are right, this is kind of becoming like laughing at the special olympics kids. Bordering on tacky.

[Natalie Severn]

[QUOTE=Ally;89156]Pirate,

You are making a sweeping generalizion about millions of women. I am talking about five women and of these women, everyone who was a mother was a BAD mother. I notice you are completely overlooking the other two mothers in this group Annie and Polly. Want to know why? Because Polly walked out on her family again and again finally abandoning them for good in 81. And Annie dove into the bottle and abandoned her surviving daughter for others to take care of.

Three mothers:

Kate: daughter moves to have nothing to do with her. Sons taken because of her drinking.
Annie: drunk, abandons her children.
Polly: Drunk, abandons her children several times.




How do you know all this,Ally?
Were you there at the time,did you talk with the women themselves -----or are you simply content to take the word of the biased press,or their menfolk who abandoned THEM?

after

------CHEATING on her [Polly"s husband while putting her in the family way with her FIFTH child was busy putting his next door neighbour up the duff at thevery same time as Polly was giving birth.Most women I know would still break under that kind of treatment by their supposed "bread winner"----[as he was then termed],he being the only form of support often available.

------BEATING her black and blue-----incidently its all very well to be sitting in judgement on Kate and her sisters------Kate"s wife beating husband also had a drink problem by some accounts and sounds almost as monstrous as POlly"s horrible cheat of man who was father. to their five children.
By comparison John Kelly sounds like a decent man and seemed so to the coroner too,best of all he was clearly fond of Kate and I believe she found a modicum of support there.