For what reason do we include Stride?

[Jon Guy]

Hi Harry
If she had her throat cut in the street-which I lean toward-she may have stumbled into the yard toward the voices and what she thought was help.

Hi Abby

If her throat was cut in the street there would have been a blood trail, and she would have blood down her front.

I strongly believe that Schwartz witnessed the assault leading to her murder.
The bruises on her right arm are what we would expect from someone swinging her about, the bruises over shoulders are consistent with being held down (just like Alice McKenzie).
The tightened scarf consistent with Stride screaming not very loudly

[Abby Normal]

I can't see a woman escaping into an unlit yard for assistance.

Hi Harry
But it seems she might have been lingering outside listening to the singing. If she had her throat cut in the street-which I lean toward-she may have stumbled into the yard toward the voices and what she thought was help.

[Jon Guy]

So, Stride was dragged kicking and screaming into the yard, where her throat was slit? All the time she didn't spill those damn cachous and there were no signs of a struggle?

I appreciate there are differing opinions, Harry, but no signs of a struggle ?

There was an abrasion of the skin about one and a half inches in diameter, apparently stained with blood, under her right arm.

Over both shoulders, especially the right, and under the collarbone and in front of the chest there was a bluish discoloration,

The deceased had round her neck a check silk scarf, the bow of which was turned to the left and pulled very tight.

[Harry D]

Hi Harry,
I am not suggesting she was dragged 'Kicking and screaming'' Neither am I
suggesting a struggle.
We were not there to determine what occurred
She may have attempted to go into the yard to get help, the killer hand over her mouth slit her throat, and she went down.
The Cachous wedged in her hand.
Regards Richard.

I can't see a woman escaping into an unlit yard for assistance.

[richardnunweek]

Hi Harry,
I am not suggesting she was dragged 'Kicking and screaming'' Neither am I
suggesting a struggle.
We were not there to determine what occurred
She may have attempted to go into the yard to get help, the killer hand over her mouth slit her throat, and she went down.
The Cachous wedged in her hand.
Regards Richard.

[Harry D]

I don't think he was full of BS but he did come into the middle of a movie that had no subtitles and left before it was over. I don' think he was lying but I do think we should take his story with a grain of salt given the circumstances.

c.d.

Hello CD,

Schwartz may have seen something, but if he wasn't lying, I think his version of events was greatly exaggerated and embellished.

Stride's murder has all the signs of a blitz attack. If Schwartz is to believed, Stride went into a pitch black yard with her assailant and let her guard down, or there was another attacker in a matter of minutes.

[Harry D]

Hi.
According to Schwartz . the man tried to pull her into the street.
This implies to me , he wanted Stride to come with him to another area, when she refused , he flung her to the ground.
She could identify him , so he slit her throat
Which implies to me he showed the same M/O as Jack.if the others had refused his advances, as Mary Nichols may have done, they may have suffered a slit throat only ,but Nichols was in a deserted street , and mutilation occurred.
Regards Richard.

So, Stride was dragged kicking and screaming into the yard, where her throat was slit? All the time she didn't spill those damn cachous and there were no signs of a struggle?

Alrighty then.

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Trevor, if you don't believe BS was Liz's killer, then can I ask what aspects you think are different?

I am sorry my reply was as result of my misreading your post. The reply was to show why Stride was not killed by the same hand as any of the others.

My reply to your original question has been answered in another post that followed

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi.
According to Schwartz . the man tried to pull her into the street.
This implies to me , he wanted Stride to come with him to another area, when she refused , he flung her to the ground.
She could identify him , so he slit her throat
Which implies to me he showed the same M/O as Jack.if the others had refused his advances, as Mary Nichols may have done, they may have suffered a slit throat only ,but Nichols was in a deserted street , and mutilation occurred.
Regards Richard.

But if any of the victims were soliciting, which would have entailed them propositioning any men who passed by, and that propositioning was aggressive to the point of those propositioned were physically stopped from going on their way, would it not be a natural reaction to push the woman away. one hard push could have resulted in a woman falling over.

You see sometime there is always a less sinister explanation to recorded events in the world of ripperology but many seem to not want to accept.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[richardnunweek]

Hi.
According to Schwartz . the man tried to pull her into the street.
This implies to me , he wanted Stride to come with him to another area, when she refused , he flung her to the ground.
She could identify him , so he slit her throat
Which implies to me he showed the same M/O as Jack.if the others had refused his advances, as Mary Nichols may have done, they may have suffered a slit throat only ,but Nichols was in a deserted street , and mutilation occurred.
Regards Richard.

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Trevor, if you don't believe BS was Liz's killer, then can I ask what aspects you think are different?

Time of death
Location
Weapon used
No body mutilations
South of the Whitechapel Road

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Darryl Kenyon]

So many aspects of the Stride murder which make it different from all the others, and suggest she was killed by a different hand.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Hi Trevor, if you don't believe BS was Liz's killer, then can I ask what aspects you think are different?

[drstrange169]

>>But what is your basis that he was not lying or reliable.<<


Presumably this,


"In the matter of the Hungarian who said he saw a struggle between a man and a woman in the passage where the Stride body was afterwards found, the Leman-street police have reason to doubt the truth of the story."

[Varqm]

I don't think he was full of BS but he did come into the middle of a movie that had no subtitles and left before it was over. I don' think he was lying but I do think we should take his story with a grain of salt given the circumstances.

c.d.

But what is your basis that he was not lying or reliable.

---

[Batman]

Sorry Batman but Schwartz said nothing about seeing Stride murdered. He only saw a woman pushed to the ground. She was alive when he left the scene.

c.d.

Technically you are right, but it seems to me that the alternative is to suggest Stride went through a double attack in the space of a few minutes by two unrelated fellows.

Then you have Eddowes.

Three attackers in total if someone thinks they are all different people.

Do you know how many coincidences are being played out to make Stride not a JtR victim and Schwartz telling porky pies?

1. Coincidence that walking distance towards the city from the time and area of Strides death puts one in a visible window of opportunity to see Eddowes come out of the drunk tank around Duke Street.
2. A coincidence that Lewende and Schwartz describe very similar looking men with the murdered women.
3. A coincidence that Schwartz was walking along the same road near the time Stride was murdered and told a lie about what he saw.
4. A coincidence that Stride was attacked by two people in the space of a few minutes.
5. The coincidental victimology.
6. That other serial killers have also quickly found another victim when the first one didn't satisfy their signature. Such as an escaping victim. The coincidence that Strides and Eddowes murder happens to look like someone was interrupted this way.

Things like this tell me that compounding coincidences makes their probability even more unlikely.