The Cachous

[Errata]

There are any number of what ifs to get caught in, but we have certain truths.

There's no injury to her hands or wrists, no scraped palms, no disjointed fingers, no broken wrists. And I don't know if you've been thrown to the ground before, but if you do catch yourself with your hands you do in fact scrape them up. So either she didn't catch herself with her hands at all, or she didn't catch herself with her hands in any meaningful way, meaning she caught herself say, with her knees from a slow fall and placed her hands on the ground. Which by the way is a super common way to fall, ending up on hands and knees.

There are in fact many reasons why people don't catch themselves with their hands, personal injury lawyers aside. Especially, as it happens, if they are pushed.

And no matter what happened, why it is she is such a mutant she didn't fall on her hands, there is no reason whatsoever to think that she had cachous in her hand when she was thrown to the ground. False assumption. And not dropping them would cause more injury than a flat hand. In fact usually when someone busts their hand from catching themselves, it's because they caught themselves on a fist or with a clawed hand. The straight wrist break comes from using the heel of a flat hand. Single broken fingers are also from a fist or partially open hand. So none of that happened, so she clearly didn't break her fall with a fist. The cachous were in her hand or they weren't, but it doesn't matter because she didn't catch herself with her hands.

And all of that assumes that she had the time and mobility while she was falling to catch herself. Even if she really really wanted to, if she is being held by the arm, that arm isn't going to swing around in time. It won't make it. And often as not people content themselves with catching themselves using their forearms, elbows, or feet and legs. Sure it's not as popular as catching yourself with your hands and scraping the hell out of the heels of your hands, but we make do. And we have all see people who just couldn't catch themselves and make terrible falls. Now we know that Stride didn't do that either, but it does point out that we know it happens.

However she fell, she didn't fall hard enough to even break skin anywhere. Which sounds more like she was released and dropped, not that she was thrown. Or Schwartz was wrong and she was thrown into a wooden gate which let her bounce off of it with no damage.

You never wondered why contact sports aren't full of people with broken wrists? There's a population that falls all the time. There's reasons for that. There's a whole science of falling insurance companies and the NHL and NFL fund. Lots of research out there on it if you want to look.

[Abby Normal]

Schwartz didn't witness a violent attack or someone being murdered! He witnessed a minor assault. The simple issue here is that when you are trying to break a fall, I.e after being "thrown" the natural instinct is to spread your hands! I mean even babies do it! I even found a personal injury website where those exact words were written. And if anyone should know it's a personal injury lawyer!

I would also reiterate what Phil Carter on the other thread has already pointed out to you and that is personal insults are against the rules of this board. If that what motivates you, rather than civil discussion, perhaps you should find some other forum.

But yes, enough of this nonsense.

Yes you are correct. it was infantile of me. I should have used a much more mature term, like yours

lack the intellect to grasp

: 0

I could say that you are also being hypocritical, but I wont.

Yes you go right ahead and use Phil Carter to back you up! It seems you two have a lot in common. By the way, look who commented on your whining about me in the other thread. I'll go with that guy.

Back to the red herring.

I at least have an open mind and can admit-its possible, maybe even probable, that she could have dropped them.

Can you at least admit its possible she could have held onto them?

[John G]

Hello John. Thanks.

"none of that is remotely relevant to what Schwartz stated he witnessed."

Yes. That is what CD and I have been bellyaching about.

But, SOON some jester will post, "What's yore prolem? People hold on to things when dieing all thuh tyme."

Bet me?

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Yes, the very specific question, concerning Stride's instinctive response to avoid impact injuries after being thrown to the ground, has got lost in irrelevant arguments about holding on to things during quite different scenarios. It is not the seriousness of the assault that matters- in fact, in some situations you might grasp an article even tighter, I.e because of stress/ anxiety- but the instinctive response to avoid hitting the ground because you are unsupported.

And, as I noted in an earlier post, in this regard being thrown to the ground is very different to, say, being wrestled to the ground. If you don't ask the right question, you're likely to get the wrong answer, as interesting as it is to read posters anecdotes!

[lynn cates]

bets

Hello John. Thanks.

"none of that is remotely relevant to what Schwartz stated he witnessed."

Yes. That is what CD and I have been bellyaching about.

But, SOON some jester will post, "What's yore prolem? People hold on to things when dieing all thuh tyme."

Bet me?

Cheers.
LC

[John G]

You can be Johnny number 1 when I`m dead.
I`m old, so shouldn`t be too long for you now.

Tread carefully on the dark side.

Hello Number 1,

I've been thinking and I'm not sure I want the responsibility of being Number 1, so live long and prosper!

I'm a little afraid of the dark so that's good advice! Actually, except for the cachous we probably agree on quite a lot. I think JtR was probably responsible for the C5 and Tabram, and possibly even Smith and McKenzie. However, if Stride was killed by BS man, I don't think she was a JtR victim, which is one of the reasons I've argued so strongly that she wasn't. Conversely, I don't agree with Batman's "Ripperstein" theory, or that JtR was also the Torso killer. I also don't believe there's the remotest possibility that Chapman was JtR.

I also think that George Hutchison may have been telling the truth, which I guess puts me in a very small minority, although whether that's the dark or light side I don't know!

[Jon Guy]

Hello Number 1,

Another pretty good post, except I like Lynn and I wouldn't mind being Number 1! Some might say that I have a tendency to overreact sometimes, despite my otherwise robust nature, particularly when I write posts after just waking up! ( Note to self, stop writing posts when you've just woken up and you're feeling a little grumpy.) But, of course, It's something I would be unlikely to admit to!

You can be Johnny number 1 when I`m dead.
I`m old, so shouldn`t be too long for you now.

Tread carefully on the dark side.

[John G]

Hello ...number 2 ?



Thank God, I thought we`d lost to you leathery old Lynn in Mordor.




Ah, and you were doing so well, too .. ;-)



Not if you mean it.



Yes, you seem like a good guy, Johnny.
But don`t let Phil Martyr take you down Hysterical Lane when the fur flies :-)

Hello Number 1,

Another pretty good post, except I like Lynn and I wouldn't mind being Number 1! Some might say that I have a tendency to overreact sometimes, despite my otherwise robust nature, particularly when I write posts after just waking up! ( Note to self, stop writing posts when you've just woken up and you're feeling a little grumpy.) But, of course, It's something I would be unlikely to admit to!

And for the record, I'm perfectly willing to accept that Stride may have held on to the cachous after being stabbed repeatedly, wrestled to the ground, shot, kicked numerous times, decapitated, and dragged through a hedge backwards a dozen times! Unfortunately, none of that is remotely relevant to what actually happened.

[Jon Guy]

Hello Johnny 2,.

Hello ...number 2 ?

Of course, I wasn't referring to yourself, I consider you to be one of the Casebooks greatest intellects! ,.

Thank God, I thought we`d lost to you leathery old Lynn in Mordor.

But seriously,?

Ah, and you were doing so well, too .. ;-)

telling someone to go to "la la land" and calling them as "thick as a brick", is a little infantile, don't you think?.

Not if you mean it.

That said, I'm pretty robust. Unlike some, I've never reported a post and I've no intention of ever doing so. I believe in free speech.

Yes, you seem like a good guy, Johnny.
But don`t let Phil Martyr take you down Hysterical Lane when the fur flies :-)

[John G]

Oh, Johnny, and there was you whining about personal insults. Tut tut.

Hello Johnny 2,

Touche! Of course, I wasn't referring to yourself, I consider you to be one of the Casebooks greatest intellects! But seriously, telling someone to go to "la la land" and calling them as "thick as a brick", is a little infantile, don't you think?

That said, I'm pretty robust. Unlike some, I've never reported a post and I've no intention of ever doing so. I believe in free speech.

[Jon Guy]

Hello Lynn,

Yes, I'm amazed that certain posters appears to lack the intellect to grasp this basic fact. I am quite willing to accept that you can keep hold of things during car accidents. Or even in a scenario where a victim is wrested to the ground, whilst being repeatedly stabbed and then dragged into a hedge, However, none of that is remotely relevant to what Schwartz stated he witnessed. It is an obvious fact that when faced with the prospect of an impact injury, i.e because of being thrown to the ground, you would spread your hands to protect yourself- face, back, head- from injury.

The seriousness of the assault has nothing to do with it.

Oh, Johnny, and there was you whining about personal insults. Tut tut.

[John G]

Hello (again) John.

"The simple issue here is that when you are trying to break a fall, I.e after being "thrown" the natural instinct is to spread your hands!"

Absolutely. To argue otherwise is to talk nonsense.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Yes, I'm amazed that certain posters appears to lack the intellect to grasp this basic fact. I am quite willing to accept that you can keep hold of things during car accidents. Or even in a scenario where a victim is wrested to the ground, whilst being repeatedly stabbed and then dragged into a hedge, However, none of that is remotely relevant to what Schwartz stated he witnessed. It is an obvious fact that when faced with the prospect of an impact injury, i.e because of being thrown to the ground, you would spread your hands to protect yourself- face, back, head- from injury.

The seriousness of the assault has nothing to do with it.

[John G]

Hello John. Funny you should mention slipping on ice.

When I was a young dustman, aged 18, I had a similar experience. Unfortunately, I extended a hand to break my fall--but in the working mechanism. My right middle finger was split open (still have the huge scar) and the bones in three fingers were splintered (doctor's words).

But at least I held onto the cachous. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

Yes, I have only just remembered the incident. The incredible thing is that I was suddenly propelled backwards, without warning, and yet I still opened by hands, thrusting them into the ground, to break the fall. If I hadn't I wouldn't have dislocated my shoulder!

[lynn cates]

nonsense

Hello (again) John.

"The simple issue here is that when you are trying to break a fall, I.e after being "thrown" the natural instinct is to spread your hands!"

Absolutely. To argue otherwise is to talk nonsense.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

industrial accident

Hello John. Funny you should mention slipping on ice.

When I was a young dustman, aged 18, I had a similar experience. Unfortunately, I extended a hand to break my fall--but in the working mechanism. My right middle finger was split open (still have the huge scar) and the bones in three fingers were splintered (doctor's words).

But at least I held onto the cachous. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[John G]

Your head is as thick as a brick, and after me and other professionals have proved to you that people can hold onto objects through violent attacks and death is common place yet stil persist in your inane objections, based partly on the fact that it does not match up with your beloved suspect, Francis Thompson, all I have to say to you is good day sir. Have fun in lala land!

Schwartz didn't witness a violent attack or someone being murdered! He witnessed a minor assault. The simple issue here is that when you are trying to break a fall, I.e after being "thrown" the natural instinct is to spread your hands! I mean even babies do it! I even found a personal injury website where those exact words were written. And if anyone should know it's a personal injury lawyer!

I would also reiterate what Phil Carter on the other thread has already pointed out to you and that is personal insults are against the rules of this board. If that what motivates you, rather than civil discussion, perhaps you should find some other forum.

But yes, enough of this nonsense.