Dutfield's Yard Video

[richardh]

Thank you for the fantastic comments and feedback. Thanks Admin also for your post.

I'm pleased with the result of Dutfield's Yard although I'm still not yet satisfied and feel there is lots to add and lots to change. I'm going to keep working on it onver the next few weeks to get it better.

Noone has yet mentioned the water pump, the three 1st floor windows round the back of the workingman's club or the posibility that I've got the stables in the wrong place. The stables I've placed on the far right of the Yard but I've read that the 'disused' stables were in the building marked as 'Forge' on the goad's plans. I could do with some advice on that.

Lights: I note in Phil Hutchison's Dutfield's Yard photo (DY1) there is a gas lamp affixed to the wall of a cottage on the left. Was this the only light? (I think it was).

@Geister the render (the video) was actually in full colour but I thought it looked crap! so chose to desaturate it. I think that when the model is truly finished I will create a couple of contrasting videos - B/W, Colour and the all important night shot.

By the way, the shadows you see in the video (actual shadows not Hank Marvin) are the correct shadow-casts for 11:30 on June 22nd 1900 as I was trying to copy the shadowing in DY1

@GUT The steps have no rail because again I was copying DY1

@Cogidubnus Re: the yard cobbles - Yes those cobbles will have to go!

Thanks again for the encouragement.
V3 coming soon!

[GUT]

G'day Richard.

The tables are in what, I consider to be, the logical spot doesn't mean they're right just if I was laying out the yard where I'd put them, Goad refers to I seem to recall, disused stables, so maybe there were differing locations over time.

[richardh]

UPDATE:

Been working at the model again. Just thought I'd share these screenshots of the victim position so you can advice on position/location etc. She's a naked model but she's been covered.... with a bit of material found near the yard!



Click this link for a larger image.

R

[Fisherman]

There are a few things, Ricardh!

Her right arm was resting on her chest and in front of her.

Her body was resting upon her upper left arm.

Her knees were drawn up "as in pain".

The axis of her body was in an oblique angle to the wall.

PC Lamb said that she gave the impression of having been gently laid down, so you are looking for a position in which you´d be likely to find a sleeping person.

I wrote a dissertation on all of this years ago. I still think that has got the body position correct. It´s in the dissertations department here on Casebook:

http://www.casebook.org/dissertations/dst-fisherman2.html

Your work is a joy to see!

All the best,
Fisherman

[GUT]

G'day Richard

think what Fisherman says is pretty close to the mark, you need, in my opinion, to bring her knees up and move the right arm to across her chest.

[richardh]

Okay, I'll get on to that tonight. Thanks for the feedback. So, basically she's lying on her left side in a 'loose' foetal postion with right hand across chest. I have the right hand across her belly at the moment. That left arm, is that okay to be sort of reaching out or should it be tucked in?

thanks
R

[Fisherman]

Okay, I'll get on to that tonight. Thanks for the feedback. So, basically she's lying on her left side in a 'loose' foetal postion with right hand across chest. I have the right hand across her belly at the moment. That left arm, is that okay to be sort of reaching out or should it be tucked in?

thanks
R

She was lying with her body resting upon her left upper arm, and the lower arm was reaching out, probably roughly in a straight angle to the upper arm.

The best,
Fisherman

[Jon Guy]

Okay, I'll get on to that tonight. Thanks for the feedback. So, basically she's lying on her left side in a 'loose' foetal postion with right hand across chest. I have the right hand across her belly at the moment. That left arm, is that okay to be sort of reaching out or should it be tucked in?

I would suggest asking Jon (Wickerman) to send you his excellent sketches showing Stride`s position

[richardh]

thanks Jon, I'll see if I can find them.

I would suggest asking Jon (Wickerman) to send you his excellent sketches showing Stride`s position

[Jon Guy]

thanks Jon, I'll see if I can find them.

It was over on JTRForums, here`s the link:

http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=18558&page=6

[Archaic]

Wicket-Gate "Hatch" Set Within Yard Gates

Hi Richard.

First of all I want to say thank you for all the work you've done; it's fantastic. It appears to me that there were more potential places to hide, and more potential ways of escape than Dutfield's Yard is usually credited with.

You asked us to give our critiques or point out any discrepancies.

One of the large wooden gates at the entrance to Dutfield's Yard had a smaller "wicket" gate set within it.

It's recorded as being the northern-most gate. In contemporary newspaper illustrations it's depicted as being set within the right-hand gate if one is standing in the street facing the yard entrance. This is the same side as the Working Man's Club. (See attachment; insert illustration upper left. Larger illustration shows part of this right-hand gate, but the center of it is blocked by pony cart.)

Wicket-gates were an old security measure designed to let one person at a time in or out without having to open the main gates. Sometimes wicket-gates were narrow human-height single doors without a raised thresh-hold, and other times they were much smaller doors or "hatches" that required a person to step over a raised threshold in order to enter or exit.

This smaller type of raised door was called a "manway", and if the news illustration is accurate that would appear to be the type of wicket-gate at Dutfield's Yard.

I've thought about why there was a wicket-gate at Dutfield's Yard, and I think it probably pre-dated the days of Hindley & Dutfield. The wicket-gate probably goes back to the Yard's earlier history when there would have been multiple horses in the stable and possibly guard dogs.

A "manway" type wicket-gate would have let the inhabitants in or out while keeping the horses and dogs safely contained within the yard, blocked the passage of vehicles, and made it much more difficult for thieves to enter or exit.

I recall reading a detective article from about 1877 which stated that an East-End 'factory' yard also had a gated entrance with a wicket-gate, so it seems to have been fairly common. (I can find the article if anyone is interested...I believe the factory was called "Byrles" or something similar.)

I've wondered if Elizabeth's Stride's killer could possibly have hidden behind the gate when Diemshutz entered with his pony, and then escaped via the wicket-gate or "hatch"?

Hope this information is helpful to you, and not a headache!

Best regards,
Archaic

[GUT]

Hi Richard.

First of all I want to say thank you for all the work you've done; it's fantastic. It appears to me that there were more potential places to hide, and more potential ways of escape than Dutfield's Yard is usually credited with.

You asked us to give our critiques or point out any discrepancies.

One of the large wooden gates at the entrance to Dutfield's Yard had a smaller "wicket" gate set within it.

It's recorded as being the northern-most gate. In contemporary newspaper illustrations it's depicted as being set within the right-hand gate if one is standing in the street facing the yard entrance. This is the same side as the Working Man's Club. (See attachment; insert illustration upper left. Larger illustration shows part of this right-hand gate, but the center of it is blocked by pony cart.)

Wicket-gates were an old security measure designed to let one person at a time in or out without having to open the main gates. Sometimes wicket-gates were narrow human-height single doors without a raised thresh-hold, and other times they were much smaller doors or "hatches" that required a person to step over a raised threshold in order to enter or exit.

This smaller type of raised door was called a "manway", and if the news illustration is accurate that would appear to be the type of wicket-gate at Dutfield's Yard.

I've thought about why there was a wicket-gate at Dutfield's Yard, and I think it probably pre-dated the days of Hindley & Dutfield. The wicket-gate probably goes back to the Yard's earlier history when there would have been multiple horses in the stable and possibly guard dogs.

A "manway" type wicket-gate would have let the inhabitants in or out while keeping the horses and dogs safely contained within the yard, blocked the passage of vehicles, and made it much more difficult for thieves to enter or exit.

I recall reading a detective article from about 1877 which stated that an East-End 'factory' yard also had a gated entrance with a wicket-gate, so it seems to have been fairly common. (I can find the article if anyone is interested...I believe the factory was called "Byrles" or something similar.)

I've wondered if Elizabeth's Stride's killer could possibly have hidden behind the gate when Diemshutz entered with his pony, and then escaped via the wicket-gate or "hatch"?

Hope this information is helpful to you, and not a headache!

Best regards,
Archaic

G'day Richard

OK I was hoping Archaic's image would show up, but anyway you cen see in it what I was trying to say about the grating next to the body and how it appears to extend downward into the pavement.

[richardh]

Okay. Take a look at post #63 above (or click HERE). I've updated the victim's position based on Wickerman's drawings

@Archaic: I have included a wicket gate in the large yard gates. It's just not that visible. I'll try to make it a bit more obvious. Here's an image:

Granted it's not very obvious.

@GUT: I'll have a go at adjusting the grating. Maybe inset the bars into the wall hand have them going down below the level of the yard floor?

[richardh]

GUT
Any better?

[GUT]

Like!