Which Schwartz interpretation is acurate ?

[GUT]

I find it hard to believe that a killer who operated so stealthily for other murders suddenly kills all but in front of witnesses.

So either he wasn't Jack OR Liz wasn't killed by Jack, OR there was no Jack.

You pays your money take your pick.

[c.d.]

I find it hard to believe that a killer who operated so stealthily for other murders suddenly kills all but in front of witnesses.

So either he wasn't Jack OR Liz wasn't killed by Jack, OR there was no Jack.

You pays your money take your pick.

What happened to the option that Jack killed Liz but Jack wasn't the B.S. man?

c.d.

[GUT]

Sorry cd I took that one "as read".

[lynn cates]

for sale

Hello GUT.

". . . OR there was no Jack"

I'll buy that. How much? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

You party pooper you!

[Jeff Leahy]

Well yes to some extent I agree

The women took Jack to a quite place.

"FAncy a quick one" "2D" "OK" "follow me"

Its something he might of done often and only on a few ocassions where circumstance correct for the attack.

This might not only include the environment but the killer state of mind.

So yes in that respect Strides attack would appear to be slightly different?

Its why I've often postulated that Dutfeild Yard was more personal in some way to the killer. A location possibly closer to home, one where he felt someone was intruding on his patch.. But that is just of course my opinion and to some extent guess work.

Happy Easter

Yours Jeff

[Observer]

The fact is (as has been pointed out several times) until the Stride murder Jack had encountered no resistance from his victims, that is, until it was too late for the victims to resist. It's possible Liz Stride was not comfortable with her "companion", and resisted his advances, hence Schwartz witnessing the little altercation he later recounted to the police. In effect, with regard to the Stride murder, Jack was showing a side to his character which was not required when dealing with his previous victims

Regards
Observer

[Sam Flynn]

Hi Sam,

Surely the club was only a short distance from Commercial Road

Having been to "Berner Street" a few times - once with your fair self - it still seems a bit off the beaten track. That might just be my imagination, of course. That notwithstanding, it was in 1888 the site of a busy club, which is one of the reasons I find it a bit puzzling that Liz was there at all.

[Wickerman]

.... it was in 1888 the site of a busy club, which is one of the reasons I find it a bit puzzling that Liz was there at all.

Maybe puzzling, if she was in the dark yard alone.
Not so puzzling if she was with someone and they were enjoying the singalong coming from the windows.

[Sam Flynn]

Not so puzzling if she was with someone and they were enjoying the singalong coming from the windows.

Possibly, Jon... but were there not other places in Whitechapel where they could have done that? Perhaps her killer was a klezmer aficionado

[Wickerman]

Possibly, Jon... but were there not other places in Whitechapel where they could have done that?

I truly don't know Gareth, perhaps if there were other places, and a woman had been killed there, someone would have asked, why here and not over at Berner St.?

[Sam Flynn]

I truly don't know Gareth, perhaps if there were other places, and a woman had been killed there, someone would have asked, why here and not over at Berner St.?

I'm sure nobody would have thought of Berner Street, had not Stride been killed there.

[lynn cates]

yup

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Aye, that I am.

Cheers.
LC

[Jeff Leahy]

Hello Jeff ,

I think we must conclude that if Jack and Annie showed up in the back of 29 Hanbury Street only to be greeted by Richardson fixing his lock , the murder would not have commenced there and then .. likewise if Jack and Polly had Paul and Crossmere loitering around them , I'm sure she would have not been found in Bucks row .. (ect ect )

The Thing is Jeff , There was no guarantees as far as , who was going to walk around the corner or into the back yard at any given moment , the Killer had no control over this particular element of his crime , but he could control who was around him at the moment of killing , after that initial few seconds he was in the hands of fortune and luck ..

So why , when it comes to Berner Street would this predetermined killer not give a rats ass about who was in his immediate area ? surely he would take a cursory glance to check on his precarious surroundings .. much the same way as a desperate man taking a pee in a public street today
No one wants to get caught for either offence .

And yes I know " Predetermined " is not a view held by many , but even a spur of the moment killer would be a little cautious as to who was over his shoulder .

cheers , moonbegger

As I said, Perhaps he lived there as a child?

"Unidentified murders in London are rare and the Jack the ripper crimes are not within that catigory"

[moonbegger]

As I said, Perhaps he lived there as a child?

"Unidentified murders in London are rare and the Jack the ripper crimes are not within that catigory"

I don't get the relevance Jeff , how would that make him less cautious as to who was over his shoulder , or who was loitering in his kill zone ?

moonbegger