Did BS-man murder Liz Stride?

[Jon Guy]

Schwartz – who actually told The Star that he saw the man ‘put his hand on her shoulder and push her back into the passage’.

Paul Begg writes -was noted that there was a bluish discoloration over both shoulders, especially the right, and under the collarbone and in front of the chest. These marks were produced by pressure from two hands, but may not have been recent or connected with the crime. Dr Phillips believed that Stride had been seized by the shoulders and forced onto the ground, where her murderer, who was on her right side (i.e. facing the wall), had cut her throat from left to right.

It seems the coroner wasn't aware of what Schwartz had claimed to have seen which only makes sense.

.

Some keen observations there, Batman !!
Nice one.

[lynn cates]

Coincidentally speaking . . .

Hello Batman. Thanks.

I think you need at least one big coincidence to make your theory go. It will explain how a push can cause bruises.

Might also explain how Liz held onto those cachous whilst being thrown about.

Cheers.
LC

[Batman]

Hello Batman. Thanks.

The doctors were not convinced that the perimortem bruising was done in the lethal assault. But where did Schwartz say "shoulders"?

Cheers.
LC

Schwartz – who actually told The Star that he saw the man ‘put his hand on her shoulder and push her back into the passage’.

Paul Begg writes -was noted that there was a bluish discoloration over both shoulders, especially the right, and under the collarbone and in front of the chest. These marks were produced by pressure from two hands, but may not have been recent or connected with the crime. Dr Phillips believed that Stride had been seized by the shoulders and forced onto the ground, where her murderer, who was on her right side (i.e. facing the wall), had cut her throat from left to right.

It seems the coroner wasn't aware of what Schwartz had claimed to have seen which only makes sense.

Sorry I don't have enough coincidence cards in my deck left for that one.

[lynn cates]

appeal

Hello Michael. Thanks.

"You don't know she made contact only one time."

The mud and water.

"There was also a little mud on her right . . ."

Not enough to indicate contact with the ground.

". . . but she easily could have contacted the ground twice on her left side."

Oy.

"As far as bouncing and circling killer, I see no one arguing such things. But as you brought them up, they be must things you've been mulling over. That's your thing."

Actually, it's nonsense. But it should appeal to the Schwartz crowd.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

shoulders

Hello Batman. Thanks.

The doctors were not convinced that the perimortem bruising was done in the lethal assault. But where did Schwartz say "shoulders"?

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

Hello Michael. Thanks.

My second line was another thought. Liz made contact with the ground just once that night, and it was on her left. That much is plain.

Now, if one wishes to argue that, in the Schwartz event, she never touched the ground, very well.

Similarly, if one wishes to argue that Liz fell on her left after being pulled, and then bounced into the yard (on her left side) and then pulled out her cachous whilst her attacker circled her, well, one may do that too. But I prefer not.

You don't know she made contact only one time. There was also a little mud on her right, but she easily could have contacted the ground twice on her left side. As far as bouncing and circling killer, I see no one arguing such things. But as you brought them up, they be must things you've been mulling over. That's your thing.

Mike

[Batman]

The Star uses the term shoulders. Police reports say thrown to the ground.

She was found 3 yards in from the gate.

Schwartz could have made up any attack story but not one that matched the postmortem bruising.

What's so far out about him being the attacker? Its within a radius of a few steps. No other prostitute claimed to have been attacked there that night.

[lynn cates]

scenarios

Hello Michael. Thanks.

My second line was another thought. Liz made contact with the ground just once that night, and it was on her left. That much is plain.

Now, if one wishes to argue that, in the Schwartz event, she never touched the ground, very well.

Similarly, if one wishes to argue that Liz fell on her left after being pulled, and then bounced into the yard (on her left side) and then pulled out her cachous whilst her attacker circled her, well, one may do that too. But I prefer not.

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

Virtually ALL the mud was on her left. That means she fell on her LEFT.

The fracas was NOT in the yard; yet, she died in the yard.

Yes, but what does that have to do with her being thrown down on the foot way, or Schwartz assuming she was thrown all the way down to the ground? I know she was on her left in the yard obviously, but I don't believe that's what you meant as you suggested there was no water or mud contacting her dress outside of the yard. I was asking how you knew where she contacted the ground with her dress outside the yard as that was what we were talking about.

Mike

[lynn cates]

forensics 102

Hello Batman. Thanks.

Where did Schwartz say "shoulders"?

IF she were dragged, her dress would have shown it.

Obviously, her cashous could not have remained intact with all that Schwartz described. But perhaps, whilst BSM were dragging her by the scarf, her last request was for a cashou?

Other than that . . .

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

forensics 101

Hello Michael. Thanks.

Virtually ALL the mud was on her left. That means she fell on her LEFT.

The fracas was NOT in the yard; yet, she died in the yard.

Cheers.
LC

[Batman]

There is no way I am going to play yet another coincidence card here.

Schwartz described a shoulder gripped and shoving down attack which is corroborated by the bruising in the autopsy report.

Obviously when down she was dragged by the scarf with its knot tightening into the yard and silenced quickly.

In order for Schwartz to have fabricated the whole thing you need his lucky stars to shine on guessing how she was grabbed to correlate with autopsy findings.

Believe that and one is also on the yellow brick road to a royal Freemasons conspiracy I would think.... With a vampire thrown in for good measure.

[The Good Michael]

But silliest of ALL is to imagine Liz "thrown down" without mud or water marking the place where her dress came into contact with the ground.

there was mud plastered on her left side and some mud on her right side. How do you know exactly where mud would have contacted her?

Mike

[lynn cates]

two

Hello Batman.

"One must remember that the incomplete Whitechapel files and the media including the home office referred to witnesses plural seeing Stride attacked."

Yes, plural.

1. Schwartz

2. Pipeman

. . . IF the story is to be believed.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Diesen Kuss der ganzen . . . Michael.

Hello Michael.

"There is such a small window of time between Schwartz and Diemschitz that it almost doesn't matter how exact Schwartz was."

Mmmwah!

Cheers.
LC