Did BS-man murder Liz Stride?

[lynn cates]

tempus fugit

Hello Harry. Thanks.

"If Schwartz is correct, two persons are in close proximity to a murder scene. He does not see her killed, and he nor any other witness can testify to what happened after Schwartz departed. What makes BS a more likely killer?"

Proximity in time. This event is supposed to be 12.45. A PC was reached just before 1.00. The lads would need to have been dispatched around 12.55 (or sooner). Now don't forget Dimshits and his stopping, lighting a match, prodding, dismounting and going into the club. And, above all, BS actually killing after the initial altercation.

It's all a matter of time.

IF BS existed, THEN he killed Liz.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

mud and water

Hello Michael. Thanks.

But silliest of ALL is to imagine Liz "thrown down" without mud or water marking the place where her dress came into contact with the ground.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

location

Hello Dusty. Thanks.

Of course, I was pleasantly surprised to find it EXACTLY where I had always imagined it.

Cheers.
LC

[Batman]

One must remember that the incomplete Whitechapel files and the media including the home office referred to witnesses plural seeing Stride attacked.

The problem is that several of them don't appear at the inquest. We can only speculate why but I think it was surpressed because of the Lipski antisemitic comment (which appeared in a newspaper when a Journalist got to Schwartz anyhow). The blowback from the Pizer incident plus the GSG probably scared Warren into having this stuff not made public for public safety.

[The Good Michael]

That still doesn't mean that the woman Schwartz saw was Stride. We live in a world where domestics and other rows don't spill out onto the street. They didn't!

In my world, there is a lot of street spillage. I was simply answering the issue of time you brought up and not addressing anything else.

Mike

[Rosella]

That still doesn't mean that the woman Schwartz saw was Stride. We live in a world where domestics and other rows don't spill out onto the street. They didn't!

[The Good Michael]

How do we know that what Schwartz saw wasn't just one of those 'rows', a common or garden domestic that had nothing to do with Stride? Of course it appears to be close to the time of the murder when he saw BS and the woman but how sure was Schwartz of the time? Did he have a watch?

Rosella,

There is such a small window of time between Schwartz and Diemschitz that it almost doesn't matter how exact Schwartz was.

Mike

[harry]

Lynn,I don't get your point.If SChwartz is correct ,two persons are in close proximity to a murder scene.He does not see her killed,and he nor any other witness can testify to what happened after Schw artz departed.What makes BS a more likely killer?

[Rosella]

PC Lamb was asked at the inquest on Stride whether he had seen anything suspicious that night. He said he hadn't at any time, "...There were squabbles and rows in the streets, but nothing more".

How do we know that what Schwartz saw wasn't just one of those 'rows', a common or garden domestic that had nothing to do with Stride? Of course it appears to be close to the time of the murder when he saw BS and the woman but how sure was Schwartz of the time? Did he have a watch?

[The Good Michael]

Hello All. To put the Schwartz story into perspective, go here:

http://www.casebook.org/witnesses/schwartz.html

Click through until you get the red dot (Liz) and the green dot (BSM). If they were turned 180 degrees (ie, Liz on the right and BSM on the left), I'd LOVE the story. But they are not. (See where/how her body lay.)

If BS man existed, he killed Liz. But the orientation is all wrong for her murder. BS did NOT kill her. So, by modus tollens . . .

Because green and red dots tell the story? There isn't enough information from what Schwartz saw, to explain everything that happened. If you go by the simple idea that Stride was thrown down and then...nothing, we could suggest that Stride picked herself up, met with a man from the Club, who then killed her in the yard. But that would be adding way too much to the story; would make it completely more complex than it probably was... and silly.

Mike

[drstrange169]

"Click through until you get the red dot (Liz) and the green dot (BSM)..."

Of course, the position of the yellow dot is a big controversy too.

[lynn cates]

wasted

Hello Cris. Thanks.

Precisely. His obvious talents were wasted behind a desk.

Cheers.
LC

[Hunter]

Swanson noted the possibility of so-called BS man's existence and the possibility of her still being killed by someone else. Of course, he thought her a prostitute.

But what did he know, eh? He was just going by the police investigation.

[lynn cates]

flashing thingy

Hello All. To put the Schwartz story into perspective, go here:

http://www.casebook.org/witnesses/schwartz.html

Click through until you get the red dot (Liz) and the green dot (BSM). If they were turned 180 degrees (ie, Liz on the right and BSM on the left), I'd LOVE the story. But they are not. (See where/how her body lay.)

If BS man existed, he killed Liz. But the orientation is all wrong for her murder. BS did NOT kill her. So, by modus tollens . . .

Cheers.
LC

[Abby Normal]

I believe Schwartz because he sounds like a coward who allowed a woman to be assaulted. He was probably forced to come forward by friends, and I'm sure he absolutely was afraid of attending any inquest. This was no hero, nor an agent. He was a wimp.

Mike

I pretty much agree with this.
Schwartz sounds to me like someone who just didn't want to get involved, either at the time or after. and only admitted to what he saw because the police found him. He certainly does not seem like the type to lie to the police, or get involved in some conspiracy with the club. this is someone new to the country and the last thing he would want to do is get in legal trouble with his new countries police.