Where is Liz Stride?

[lynn cates]

going bail

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Could be. But why the bailment of her velvet cloth and hymnal?

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Quite Lynn

She's not paid for her doss in advance (despite being in funds)...she's "dressed in her best"...she's recovered her two most treasured items (hymnal and cloth) and placed them safely out of Kidney's reach, she's (unusually) wearing flowers, carrying cachous (not that cheap even then), and according to witnesses in the pub earlier that night, in high amorous spirits with a gent...she's turned down at least one possible punter...how can she be anything but on a date? (And pursuant to that, in the process of ditching Kidney).

Whether or not that's in any way relevant to her killing, I'm convinced that's what was going on that night

All the best

Dave

[Michael W Richards]

Hi Mike

She was wearing the same clothes that she did the cleaning with that afternoon.

Thats highly unlikely Jon, since she was described by one tenant as wearing her "good evening wear", and since she treated her garment with such care that she thought to brush any lint from her clothing, that seems reasonable. She went to the pub after work with the landlady in the same outfit, but she returned to the lodging house to change for the evening.

There is definitely an outfit that she would have worn to clean rooms, and it would have included an apron. You may want to suggest that we dont know if she left any clothing at the lodging house, other than the fabric piece, which is true....but we do know that she would have worn an apron to clean a room, and we dont hear of her carrying it with her. She was, after all, a woman working in that occupation...and she had been, off and on, since her days in Sweden.

Cheers

[lynn cates]

clothing

Hello Dave. Thanks.

Of course, it has been argued that those were her usual clothes.

Cheers.
LC

[Cogidubnus]

Only on the basis that the clothes in question happened to be what she was wearing at the end of one particular day? We judge far too easily by modern day and affluent standards...with a limited choice in clothing, and knowing that she might be going somewhere special, she might well have donned her best for an afternoons work...

Amongst unfortunates, could she really and truly be expected to have a special set of rags, incredibly special, to be worn ONLY on special occasions like a date?

Bollocks and tosh...

Dave

[lynn cates]

perhaps

Hello Dave. Thanks.

Well, might be right.

Cheers.
LC

[Michael W Richards]

Only on the basis that the clothes in question happened to be what she was wearing at the end of one particular day? We judge far too easily by modern day and affluent standards...with a limited choice in clothing, and knowing that she might be going somewhere special, she might well have donned her best for an afternoons work...

Amongst unfortunates, could she really and truly be expected to have a special set of rags, incredibly special, to be worn ONLY on special occasions like a date?

Bollocks and tosh...

Dave

I don't know about any "tosh" Dave,, but I do know that Liz Stride is an anomaly within the Canonical group in another way, she is known to have been working, we can assume steadily, for some months prior to her murder.

We also know that she had just ended what had at one time been a contentious relationship and that she was said to have disappeared for months at a time to be with other men. She has also had a fairly steady record of having someone in her life since being in London.

Its the cumulative data Dave.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Michael

Thats highly unlikely Jon, since she was described by one tenant as wearing her "good evening wear", and since she treated her garment with such care that she thought to brush any lint from her clothing, that seems reasonable. She went to the pub after work with the landlady in the same outfit, but she returned to the lodging house to change for the evening.

All she did was put on her bonnet and cloak when she returned from the pub with Tanner.

There is definitely an outfit that she would have worn to clean rooms, and it would have included an apron.

What is your source for this cleaning outfit, Mike?

Remember, this cleaning job was a one off.
She was helping Ann Mills, the bed lady, to clean up one of the rooms after some men had had been in to whitewash it.

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

Could be. But why the bailment of her velvet cloth and hymnal?

She could have taken them out with her that night I suppose.

[lynn cates]

alternates

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"She could have taken them out with her that night I suppose."

Indeed. And that would have been appropriate given an anticipated return (of course, it would require spacious pockets--a la Kate). And if she were to have paid doss (better: had paid it) why not leave them behind?

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hi Lynn

Indeed. And that would have been appropriate given an anticipated return (of course, it would require spacious pockets--a la Kate).

Come on, Lynn, a bible and a substanial piece of velvet?
Like Stride, I would not have carried them with me on a Saturday night out.

And if she were to have paid doss (better: had paid it) why not leave them behind?

I don`t follow you?
She didn`t pay her doss, and she did leave the velvet with her mate at her digs?
The Bible, I believe she left with the lady who lived next to Kidney after she had retrieved it from him.

[lynn cates]

belongings

Hello Jon. Thanks.

'Like Stride, I would not have carried them with me on a Saturday night out."

Especially, if I'd planned no imminent return.

If she had paid doss for the night (or planned to) why not leave your belongings in the doss house?

Cheers.
LC

[Michael W Richards]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

'Like Stride, I would not have carried them with me on a Saturday night out."

Especially, if I'd planned no imminent return.

If she had paid doss for the night (or planned to) why not leave your belongings in the doss house?

Cheers.
LC

There is a statement by the landlady that makes it clear that tenants could leave their valuables with her if their stay was to be sporadic, or I suppose even if they went out for a night.

The piece of velvet fascinates me actually...here is a woman who it seems knew Liz Stride primarily just in passing, as a co-tenant if you will. And Liz entrusts her with what is likely a prize of some sort to her...maybe its to patch a spot on her coat at a later time. But something she obviously is holding onto for some reason.

So why not leave it with the landlady you had a pint with after work?

I know some discussion has suggested that Liz did pay her 4d before leaving the lodging house but there is no evidence Ive ever heard of that makes that a viable position.

Cheers Lynn

[Cogidubnus]

The piece of velvet fascinates me actually...here is a woman who it seems knew Liz Stride primarily just in passing, as a co-tenant if you will. And Liz entrusts her with what is likely a prize of some sort to her...maybe its to patch a spot on her coat at a later time. But something she obviously is holding onto for some reason.

Hi Mike

If it was a sizeable piece of plain velvet she'd been given or earned, (end of a bolt?), or even a reasonably sized piece of figured velvet, it'd be of GREAT value to her...for example, at the very least, she could make some very saleable garments from it...but possibly she had some far more precious and personal future use in line for it...Huge speculation, but women weren't married in white back then...

All the best

Dave

[lynn cates]

Baxter

Hello Mike. Thanks.

"I know some discussion has suggested that Liz did pay her 4d before leaving the lodging house. . ."

I thought Baxter had nixed that?

Cheers.
LC