Where is Liz Stride?

[lynn cates]

consistent

Hello (again) CD. Thanks.

"Maybe she had gotten a little cold standing there and she thought it might warm her."

Fair enough. But why is she standing there?

"Your reference to Kate seems to indicate that you want proof of everything and that just ain't gonna happen."

Well, I want a story that is not internally inconsistent. Something there is that doesn't love P and not P.

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello CD. Thanks.

"I think the key words are a single woman by herself late at night rather than walking.?

1. 12.30 is late?

2. What is salient about being a woman and by yourself?

Cheers.
LC

Yes, I would consider 12:30 to be late. Were "respectable" women out late at night by themselves in the Victorian period and standing on corners for no apparent reason?

c.d.

[lynn cates]

"You're so respectable."

Hello CD. Thanks.

"Respectable" women were expected to be married and to produce offspring for England.

But some women in the East End worked and, yes, were out late.

Standing for no apparent reason? Well put.

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

Mike,

The same can be said about those that include her as a 'Ripper' victim.

All the best
DRoy

I think I said that. I don't know if she is or isn't, but she can't be dismissed with the non-evidence either way that we currently have. Also, the weight of the people who were there and made the comparisons and knew the streets have to account for something, so I lean...ever so slightly...to the side of the canon.

Mike

[c.d.]

Hello CD. Thanks.

"Respectable" women were expected to be married and to produce offspring for England.

But some women in the East End worked and, yes, were out late.

Standing for no apparent reason? Well put.

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

Yes, but Liz wasn't pushing an apple cart was she? So how exactly did the prostitutes in WhiteChapel make it clear what they were selling so that they stood out from their more "respectable" sisters?

c.d.

[lynn cates]

And a sign shall be given them.

Hello CD. Thanks.

"Yes, but Liz wasn't pushing an apple cart was she?"

How many women pushed apple carts to work?

"So how exactly did the prostitutes in Whitechapel make it clear what they were selling so that they stood out from their more "respectable" sisters?"

1. Demeanour

2. "Hey ducky, ya wanna . . . ?"

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

Hello CD. Thanks.

"Yes, but Liz wasn't pushing an apple cart was she?"

How many women pushed apple carts to work?

"So how exactly did the prostitutes in Whitechapel make it clear what they were selling so that they stood out from their more "respectable" sisters?"

1. Demeanour

2. "Hey ducky, ya wanna . . . ?"

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn,

By apple cart, I meant that it was not obvious that Liz was working or on her way to work. No tools of the trade.

Demeanor? How so, exactly?

"Hey ducky"? Yes, provided the John was within ear shot.

My point is that unless Liz were wearing a big P on her chest for prostitute, it might be hard for someone observing her from a distance to conclude she was selling her services. Confirmation would require speaking to her. If it were Jack and she was soliciting, it's a go. If she had another reason for being there, I think Jack could have been clever enough to come up with some type of story such as the offer of a drink. Anything to get her alone and in the yard.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

"Come with me into the . . .yard?"

Hello CD. Thanks.

Demeanour? Well, sometimes shy people comport themselves one way. Shy prostitutes are frequently unsuccessful. Body english is important here.

"If she had another reason for being there, I think Jack could have been clever enough to come up with some type of story such as the offer of a drink. Anything to get her alone and in the yard."

Of course, if she were soliciting, she might well be just outside the gates. Presumably, alone.

Why get her into the yard?

If Schwartz is to be believed, she WAS alone and the only "JACK" fellow was BSM.

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

If Schwartz is to be believed, she WAS alone and the only "JACK" fellow was BSM.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.

Naturally, I am intrigued as to how you arrive at the conclusion that according to Schwartz, she was alone?

What did he say that convinces you?

[The Good Michael]

Honestly, I think the time of night she was out, and the area in which she was out and about, spoke volumes to everyone around about her profession. Even if she weren't a prostitute, she would have seemed as if she were one.

Mike

[lynn cates]

story

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Well, BSM is not described as interrupting anyone when he paused to chat up Liz.

Could have merely neglected to relate?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Fanny

Hello Michael.

"Honestly, I think the time of night she was out, and the area in which she was out and about, spoke volumes to everyone around about her profession."

Indeed? Fanny Mortimer did THAT for a living? Well, well, well.

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

Hello Michael.

"Honestly, I think the time of night she was out, and the area in which she was out and about, spoke volumes to everyone around about her profession."

Indeed? Fanny Mortimer did THAT for a living? Well, well, well.

I see you didn't actually read what I wrote. It's all about how she was perceived. Perception is everything, and you know that. It doesn't matter what she did for a living. At that time of evening, walking around a bad part of town, wearing nice enough clothing, what do you expect the young men, also out at that hour, would have thought of her? Rhetorical question. You know there's only one logical answer.

Mike

[DRoy]

Mike,

I agree with you here. It is about perception. If she wasn't already with a friend or boyfriend or another client, etc, 'Jack' could have easily assumed she was working.

I also believe that she appeared a bit better than the average prostitute or woman percieved as being one since there is a few comments about her being dressed better and looking out of place, etc.

It reminds me of the woman in movies who is wearing the bright red dress that is too difficult to miss or ignore. Whether 'Jack' or not killed her, looking better than most women at that time of night could lead her killer to assume she was working and why not go for the pretty one?

Cheers
DRoy

[lynn cates]

believable

Hello Michael. Thanks.

"I see you didn't actually read what I wrote."

Ah, but I did. Couldn't miss it.

"It's all about how she was perceived. Perception is everything, and you know that."

Not disagreeing.

"It doesn't matter what she did for a living. At that time of evening, walking around a bad part of town, wearing nice enough clothing, what do you expect the young men, also out at that hour, would have thought of her?"

Very well, let's cut to the chase. Liz is "perceived" as a prostitute. What then? BSM (if you believe in him) crosses her path, gets a look at her, and smacks her ("Dirty 'ore!")?

Or is this "Jack" character a bit of a voyeur and hiding behind something, awaiting an opportunity?

You see, I am MORE than receptive to solicitation. But it MUST fit into an overall schema; nor, can we have such Deus ex machina as "interruptions," "invisible people," etc.

It needs to be consistent AND believable.

Cheers.
LC