Where is Liz Stride?

[DRoy]

c.d.

Very logical. I'd only point out that there is much debate on whether she was soliciting or not.

You gave good reason why she should/would be outside a men's club but let's turn it around for a second. A well dressed woman happens to be passing by a men's club, what happens? Picture the stereotypical construction workers with a well dressed woman walking by sort of scenario. Maybe people assumed she was a prostitute because she was a woman walking alone at night.

Cheers
DRoy

[c.d.]

Hello DRoy,

That is a pretty reasonable assumption and the only way to find out for sure is to approach her.

As far as soliciting goes, maybe we are on the wrong track, limiting ourselves to money (by way of soliciting) as the only inducement that would have gotten Liz to go back into the yard with a stranger. What about alcohol? Could her murderer have approached her pretending he had been drinking and offered her a few swigs from a bottle. "It's kind of cold tonight. Have you been standing here long? I have a little something with me that might help. What do you say we go back in the yard where it is a little more privacy?" I know the autopsy didn't find any alcohol but maybe she didn't have the chance to take that first drink.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

hotspot

Hello Michael. Thanks.

"Ah...so there were no bars on the way to Dutfield's?"

Well, certainly not between where Liz was standing when she dusted off Brown's lad (if that is where her date ended) and the yard. And they were closed.

"And you know that near the vicinity of Dutfield's would have been worse for soliciting than say, Hanbury?"

#29 was a hotspot for such activity. Just as John Richardson observed. Where can one find a quiet spot at Dutfield's?

"I wish I knew that much about the area around Dutfield's."

With more research, you certainly may.

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

as far as soliciting goes, maybe we are on the wrong track, limiting ourselves to money (by way of soliciting) as the only inducement that would have gotten Liz to go back into the yard with a stranger. What about alcohol? Could her murderer have approached her pretending he had been drinking and offered her a few swigs from a bottle. "It's kind of cold tonight. Have you been standing here long? I have a little something with me that might help. What do you say we go back in the yard where it is a little more privacy?" I know the autopsy didn't find any alcohol but maybe she didn't have the chance to take that first drink.

C.d.,

I don't think any of this matters. Soliciting or not soliciting. Money or alcohol. The point (for me anyway) is that people take a stand on such things for the purpose of eliminating Stride as a ripper victim when that simply cannot be done. I have no idea if she was or wasn't, but her lifestyle was in no general way different from that of the others. Non-canoners (my word) will talk about the lack of mutilation and then try to throw in this canard as of it really has any extra weight. It doesn't. There is no way to exclude Stride from the current information, and making up stuff just confuses the case.

Mike

[lynn cates]

point

Hello Roy. Thanks.

"I'm not convinced we're talking about the same killer my friend."

Nor yet I. And that was part of my point.

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

#29 was a hotspot for such activity. Just as John Richardson observed. Where can one find a quiet spot at Dutfield's?

Ah yes, it was a regular thoroughfare without a back door and a long line at the public privy in the yard, so yes, a busy hotspot...how does that differ exactly?

Mike

[lynn cates]

men

Hello CD. Thanks.

"For the life of me, I can't figure out why standing next to a building containing men . . ."

And women. Some of whom were spouses.

". . . is a bad idea as far as soliciting."

Well, if you are good at what you do, and very smart, might be alright.

"Yes, I know they were poor . . ."

And that is caveat #1.

". . . and yes, I know they had strong political views which they apparently focused on . . ."

Not a big deal.

" . . . but they were MEN."

And so Liz, after sending Brown's man home, decides to wax philanthropic and pitch in with freebies all around? Very well.

"And unless they were all gay men, it seems like a good idea to me."

And I am hopeful that this is not how you make a living?

"And as far as the poor thing, was Liz really going to attract high class (and rich) clientele?"

Haven't the foggiest. It would depend upon:

1. Was she REALLY soliciting

2. Did she buy her accoutrements for enhancement purposes?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

walking

Hello Roy.

"Picture the stereotypical construction workers with a well dressed woman walking by sort of scenario."

Well UNdressed, perhaps?

"Maybe people assumed she was a prostitute because she was a woman walking alone at night."

But if Israel's story is true, she was not walking about, was she?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

But no sign shall be given it.

Hello CD.

"I know the autopsy didn't find any alcohol but maybe she didn't have the chance to take that first drink."

Well, IF one accepts her pub sighting (G & B), surely she had a chance?

But, if Kate can have invisible signs of strangulation, why cannot Liz have invisible signs of drunkenness and invisible signs of recent connection?

Cheers.
LC

[c.d.]

I think the key words are a single woman by herself late at night rather than walking.

c.d.

[c.d.]

Hello Lynn,

I was referring to my scenario only. So she could have been killed before she had the opportunity to take the drink that was being offered to her. Why she would do so if she had not previously been drinking I don't know but I can only speculate. Maybe she had gotten a little cold standing there and she thought it might warm her.

Your reference to Kate seems to indicate that you want proof of everything and that just ain't gonna happen. That is why we all speculate.

c.d.

[lynn cates]

word from a non-canoner

Hello Michael.

"I don't think any of this matters. Soliciting or not soliciting. Money or alcohol. The point (for me anyway) is that people take a stand on such things for the purpose of eliminating Stride as a ripper victim . . ."

Not for me. I want to know WHAT was going on so I may fill in the blanks in an intelligent manner.

". . . when that simply cannot be done. I have no idea if she was or wasn't, but her lifestyle was in no general way different from that of the others."

Poor? I can live with that.

"Non-canoners (my word) will talk about the lack of mutilation and then try to throw in this canard as of it really has any extra weight. It doesn't.'

OK. but the less deep neck wound and lack of facial bruising are interesting. They do NOT tally with an interruption.

"There is no way to exclude Stride from the current information, and making up stuff just confuses the case."

Confusion with the WCM? May it never be!

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

use statements

Hello Michael. Thanks.

The difference has to do, largely, with the statement that people were not found in the yard since a few months back.

John, however, let it be known what his mum's yard was used for.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

salient feature

Hello CD. Thanks.

"I think the key words are a single woman by herself late at night rather than walking.?

1. 12.30 is late?

2. What is salient about being a woman and by yourself?

Cheers.
LC

[DRoy]

Mike,

The same can be said about those that include her as a 'Ripper' victim.

All the best
DRoy