Where is Liz Stride?

[Paddy]

Make of that what you will.

Thanks Wickerman !
Interesting, but I would think it still doesnt involve pipeman.
More likely the fact that PC Smith's and Schwartz's sightings didn't match.
I suppose it could be that the police questioned Scwartz's sighting as pipeman could not be found to back it up?
Very interesting that the police did actually detain two men. One could assume that identifications took place.
I know that its all in the sourcebook but I have ordered Schwartz's file and will see if there is anything of interest.
Thanks again
Pat...........................

[The Good Michael]

Thanks Wickerman !
Interesting, but I would think it still doesnt involve pipeman.
More likely the fact that PC Smith's and Schwartz's sightings didn't match.
I suppose it could be that the police questioned Scwartz's sighting as pipeman could not be found to back it up?
Very interesting that the police did actually detain two men. One could assume that identifications took place.
I know that its all in the sourcebook but I have ordered Schwartz's file and will see if there is anything of interest.
Thanks again
Pat...........................

How does one order a file? I presume you have to go to Kew or something and check it out like a library book. Is this kind of correct?

Thanks.

Mike

[lynn cates]

attire

Hello Mike.

"I suspect she was either there for a date, or for work with someone still in attendance at the club"

Regarding the latter, does one usually "char" whilst wearing a flower?

"the weekend she is killed Jewish families were observing religious celebrations"

Which? I think Yom Kippur was over at this time.

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

One thing I'm not understanding on this thread (ok many things), let's say Liz wasn't soliciting this evening. I'm pretty sure she was as I've seen nothing against it that makes me think otherwise. I've seen some logical arguments for her being on a date, but not logical enough for me to see the leopard change her spots. Regardless, let's say she was on a date for some of the evening, why would that make her ineligible to be a Ripper victim? If he targeted only unfortunates, and she was certainly one of those, why could she not have been selected?

Please don't go into a lot of peripheral stuff on this question, because if you have to build a huge case for her ineligibility, it won't really hold water.

Mike

Hmm...let me simplify the question: What difference would it make to JTR whether Stride was soliciting this evening or not, if he saw an opportunity to strike?

[Paddy]

How does one order a file.

Hi Mike I dont know if file is the right word. It was a MEPO number regarding Schwartz's statement to police (4 pages) on National Archives website and you can order online. You have to get an estimate first.
I do like to look at original copies if I can. I just wished I lived nearer Kew.
I'll post details when I get them, but as I said I am sure there's nothing unknown.
Pat....................

[The Good Michael]

Hi Mike I dont know if file is the right word. It was a MEPO number regarding Schwartz's statement to police (4 pages) on National Archives website and you can order online. You have to get an estimate first.
I do like to look at original copies if I can. I just wished I lived nearer Kew.
I'll post details when I get them, but as I said I am sure there's nothing unknown.
Pat....................

Hi Pat,

Thanks. Do you have any idea if there is an MEPO file that contains James Kelly's confession? I know people have read it and I've seen a few paraphrased sentences from it, but don't think it's available yet. I'm hoping, however.

Mike

[lynn cates]

Turn out the lights, the party's . . .

Hello Michael.

"let's say she was on a date for some of the evening, why would that make her ineligible to be a Ripper victim? If he targeted only unfortunates, and she was certainly one of those, why could she not have been selected?"

Right. Try this. Where is she targeted? Let's say by someone in the crowd at a pub. She and her date walk about. He wishes to get frisky, she dusts him off "Some other night." He leaves.

Ah, the bugger's gone. Think I'll just pop round to the club here and have a listen to "Tum Balalaika."

Usually, one goes home after a date.

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

Usually, one goes home after a date.

So...on the way home from the date. On the way to a bar. On the way to solicit. Options, options, options. There seems to me to have been what seemed opportune times if there was someone who wanted to target her, or who happened to be about when she was passing by. Of course this is IF the killer was absolutely only targeting prostitutes and knew that she was one. I don't think he drew any kind of line there.

Mike

[DRoy]

Mike,

Agreed! I also think she would have stood out a bit more than most because of her dress. She probably looked great compared to most women walking around at that time whether she was soliciting or not. If she stood out then that could very well have been her downfall, no matter who her killer was.

Cheers
DRoy

[Paddy]

James Kelly

Mike sent you a pm as it would be off topic on here....Pat

[lynn cates]

options limited

Hello Michael. Thanks.

"On the way to a bar. On the way to solicit. Options, options, options."

Don't think there were any bars located in Dutfield's Yard. And if there were, might have been closed.

On her way to solicit? Again, she stopped at Dutfield's Yard. Poor place to solicit.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

contrat

Hello Roy.

"If she stood out then that could very well have been her downfall, no matter who her killer was."

But then, Polly and Annie were "drabs."

Cheers.
LC

[The Good Michael]

"On the way to a bar. On the way to solicit. Options, options, options."

Don't think there were any bars located in Dutfield's Yard. And if there were, might have been closed.

On her way to solicit? Again, she stopped at Dutfield's Yard. Poor place to solicit.

ah...so there were no bars on the way to Dutfield's? I didn't know that. And you know that near the vicinity of Dutfield's would have been worse for soliciting than say, Hanbury? I wish I knew that much about the area around Dutfield's.

Mike

[DRoy]

Hello Roy.

"If she stood out then that could very well have been her downfall, no matter who her killer was."

But then, Polly and Annie were "drabs."

Cheers.
LC

Lynn,

I'm not convinced we're talking about the same killer my friend.

Cheers
DRoy

[c.d.]

The Good Michael's argument is right on the money. If she were a single woman standing by herself late at night, she could have been targeted. Soliciting or not soliciting be damned.

Lynn,

For the life of me, I can't figure out why standing next to a building containing men is a bad idea as far as soliciting. Yes, I know they were poor and yes, I know they had strong political views which they apparently focused on, but they were MEN. And unless they were all gay men, it seems like a good idea to me. And as far as the poor thing, was Liz really going to attract high class (and rich) clientele?

c.d.