Was Stride Really a JtR Victim?

[Bridewell]

What if?

Could we see some link between Eddowes' release and her meeting "Jack" (I'm assuming here that she WAS a Ripper victim) - even her being "stalked"? Could she have arranged previously to meet her killer (I'm thinking here of her remark that she might know "Jack") which is less plausible/possible if we have a "double event"?

Phil

N.B. The following is pure speculation.

This raises another possibility:- that Eddowes had arranged to meet her killer but was arrested just before she was due to do so.

Just supposing.......

Eddowes did know the identity of the killer and had agreed to meet him at the Aldgate Pump at 8.30pm "and if you don't turn up, my lovely, I'll go straight to the police!". 'Jack' arrives a couple of minutes late and finds that Eddowes has gone to Bishopsgate St Police Station with two police officers. Thinks "This may be my last chance to kill"? followed by, "Supposing she hasn't said anything? If she leaves the police station alone, I'll know she's kept her mouth shut and can silence her before she changes her mind. They were going to kick her out around one o'clock. Bloody hell, it's ten to!"

As I said, pure speculation, but interruption isn't the only possible reason for a sudden cessation of activity on Berner Street.

Insert howl of outrage here:.................

[Wickerman]

Fair enough, but a witness statement made to the police includes a signed declaration of truth, otherwise known as a perjury declaration, along the lines of:

"This statement (consisting of pages) is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that I may be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true"

Thankyou Colin.
Two questions:
First, are you saying this is how it is done today, or even in the 19th century?
Second, does this "perjury declaration" also apply equally to voluntary statements?
I don't recall it being mentioned with Hutchinson's statement.

Thanks.

[Bridewell]

I try to limit "testimony" to people who gave evidence at the inquest (testimony = a sworn statement), otherwise what ever they said is only a statement to either the press or police.

Fair enough, but a witness statement made to the police includes a signed declaration of truth, otherwise known as a perjury declaration, along the lines of:

"This statement (consisting of pages) is true to the best of my knowledge and belief and I make it knowing that I may be liable to prosecution if I have wilfully stated in it anything which I know to be false or do not believe to be true"

[Bridewell]

Hi Lynn

How would he know that number one squealed a bit and couldn`t finish straight off?

He wouldn't, but who could contradict him if he made the claim?

[lynn cates]

qualification

Hello Errata. Thanks.

OK. But are these "noises" usually loud? Seems that Israel needed to qualify the screams with respect to loudness. Naturally, as screams are usually loud.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

deaf as a post

Hello David. Thanks.

I'm sorry, could you speak up a bit? (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Star

Hello (again) Jon. Thanks.

"I suppose it could have been someone connected to the Star."

Good thinking.

"But they didn't track Schwartz down until early evening on Sunday at best."

For the interview? Agreed. But when would "The Star" first have become aware of the story?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

informing

Hello Jon. Thanks.

Ah, now I see what you mean--a bit of equivocation. "Squeal" meaning, in this case, "to inform."

So Liz informed on her assailant?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

Testimony means the same thing unless you are referring to legal terminology. I'm not.
Mike

I try to limit "testimony" to people who gave evidence at the inquest (testimony = a sworn statement), otherwise what ever they said is only a statement to either the press or police.

[Wickerman]

3 weeks without any murder.
Then no murder until Nov 9, indoors.

Over at Howards place we have been talking about a character (John Simmonds) who suffered from syphilis, and was admitted to the infirmary on Oct. 9th for treatment, then released Nov. 5th

Discarding Stride (or Eddowes, as Arnold did) is the grossest mistake one can make.

I don't think it is necessary to make a firm decision one way or the other, as we simply do not know.
For my part I think I can identify a handful of point in support of either view.
So I guess you can say I have not found the clincher to persuade me one way or the other.

[Errata]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"I think it means three screams that were not very loud."

Oxymoron.

Not sure how we get from an oxymoron to a squeal?

Cheers.
LC

There is a noise people make, mostly women, when they are offended, appalled, right before they say things like "Well I never!" or "How dare you!". It's like a high pitched exhale, sometimes sounding like "Oh!" or "Ugh!". I mean, everyone has heard this sort of gasp of outrage, it's just hard to describe. I think the quiet screams were that. It's hard to describe for me, who has a very good command of the English language, imagine trying to translate it.

It also makes sense given the context. And I'm betting it was not a phenomenon amongst Eastern European women, because the gasp is a social clue that a person has done something unacceptable. It precedes the dressing down. We do it a lot, give people a hint and a chance to walk it back before yelling at them. The Eastern European women of my family didn't give clues. They either stayed silent and complained about it later, or beat you over the head with it with the fury of god's own thunder. So Schwartz would have been hard pressed to describe it in his own language if there wasn't a word for it.

[DVV]

There is nothing in his statement that shows real knowledge of what happened. If he was involved in some cover up (which he wasn't), the information would have been certainly more damning to the man (men) he discussed.

Mike

Right you are, Mike

[The Good Michael]

You're saying Schwartz's 'testimony' (perhaps we should use statement here?)

Testimony means the same thing unless you are referring to legal terminology. I'm not.


Mike

[The Good Michael]

Mike,



You're saying Schwartz's 'testimony' (perhaps we should use statement here?) has no connection to the murder but he should not be dismissed. Can I ask what you mean?

Cheers
DRoy

What I said was no "direct" connection. Schwartz never said he saw someone being murdered. He identified the woman who would become the victim and he talked about two men who he never claimed were connected to each other. He only made a statement of activity he witnessed. There is nothing in his statement that shows real knowledge of what happened. If he was involved in some cover up (which he wasn't), the information would have been certainly more damning to the man (men) he discussed.

Mike

[DVV]

Hello Jon. Thanks.

"I think it means three screams that were not very loud."

Oxymoron.

Not sure how we get from an oxymoron to a squeal?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn

I vote for screams heard by a half-deaf (Hungarian).