Sequence of comings & goings - Stride

[NotBlamedForNothing]

…the man/men she was seen with, treated her with a sort of affection (unlike something I would expect from a regular prostitute's punter) - in that he/they kissed her, gave her flowers, sweets and perhaps even grapes

…and he prolly wanted to spoon 'er

[FrankO]

…and he prolly wanted to spoon 'er

Good one, NBFN, I like it!

[Herlock Sholmes]

I agree that Marshall was a reliable witness, Prospector. To me, he's also very usefull in the sense that, amongst others of course, his testimony shows that:
1. Stride had been in the neighbourhood for quite some time before she was killed
2. That the man/men she was seen with, treated her with a sort of affection (unlike something I would expect from a regular prostitute's punter) - in that he/they kissed her, gave her flowers, sweets and perhaps even grapes

What is it with me and maps?!

I've just looked at Marshall's Inquest testimony and he says that Stride was opposite number 68 ( which according to the map I've looked at was a pub) and between Christian Street and Boyd Street. I can see Boyd Street but where is Christian Street?

....

Plus, when asked by the Coroner: "Would they pass the club?" Marshall said:" They had done so."

How could he have known that they'd passed the club when earlier he'd said that she was standing talking to a man and that what drew his attention to them was "...her standing there some time, and he was kissing her." From 11.30 until 12.00 when he went inside. How could he have known which way they'd come?

[Prosector]

I agree with both those observations Frank. I think that in many ways the Stride killing is the closest we get to JTR. I think that both he and Stride were in the vicinity for at least half an hour, if not longer, before her demise and(if my theory is correct) he may even have been inside the Institute before that. Often the best alibi is to be seen in a locality in which you are already well known before or during the time of a crime. That way people think you're part of the furniture and assume that you wouldn't possibly have been there if you were the perpetrator. Also, it is not at all unusual for punters to show affection towards their prostitutes. In Victorian times (and even today) many of them married them.

[DJA]

What is it with me and maps?!

I've just looked at Marshall's Inquest testimony and he says that Stride was opposite number 68 ( which according to the map I've looked at was a pub) and between Christian Street and Boyd Street. I can see Boyd Street but where is Christian Street?

....

Plus, when asked by the Coroner: "Would they pass the club?" Marshall said:" They had done so."

How could he have known that they'd passed the club when earlier he'd said that she was standing talking to a man and that what drew his attention to them was "...her standing there some time, and he was kissing her." From 11.30 until 12.00 when he went inside. How could he have known which way they'd come?

Suggest sourcing a better Inquest testimony.

[Herlock Sholmes]

Suggest sourcing a better Inquest testimony.

Missing Christian Street was an error on my part as I was just looking at the area around Boyd Street.

I'm using the Inquest testimony in the Sourcebook. Number 68 appears to have been the George IV pub on the corner of Boyd Street but what I don't get is how anyone could call that location between Boyd Street and Christian Street. To get to Christian Street from that pub you would have to turn left into Berner Street then right into Fairclough Street then go past Batty Street on the left to the next left (Christian Street) I'm not trying to make any major point it's just that I can't see why anyone would describe the location line that?

[Herlock Sholmes]

On the point about what Marshall saw its not a better Inquest testimony that I need Dave it's new glasses. I missed one sentence about them walking.

My excuse is that I hit 55 today. Maybe my eyes got worse overnight?

[DJA]

Trust 55 recovered.

I'm in my 70s.

Um ....... Happy Birthday!!!!!

[DJA]

King George IV public house at the northern corner of Boyd and Berner (68) was owned by Edmund Farrow.

Enjoy your day.

[Joshua Rogan]

I have to agree with Dave, Herlock...here is the Telegraph's report of Marshall's comment;

" I saw the deceased on Saturday night last.
Where? - In our street, three doors from my house, about a quarter to twelve o'clock. She was on the pavement, opposite No. 58, between Fairclough-street and Boyd-street."

[Herlock Sholmes]

King George IV public house at the northern corner of Boyd and Berner (68) was owned by Edmund Farrow.

Enjoy your day.

Cheers Dave

[Herlock Sholmes]

I have to agree with Dave, Herlock...here is the Telegraph's report of Marshall's comment;

" I saw the deceased on Saturday night last.
Where? - In our street, three doors from my house, about a quarter to twelve o'clock. She was on the pavement, opposite No. 58, between Fairclough-street and Boyd-street."

No problem. The Times version in the Sourcebook says " She was on the pavement opposite No. 68 and between Christian Street and Boyd Street."

[Azarna]

Happy Birthday, Herlock!

[Herlock Sholmes]

Happy Birthday, Herlock!

Thanks Azarna.

[Joshua Rogan]

No problem. The Times version in the Sourcebook says " She was on the pavement opposite No. 68 and between Christian Street and Boyd Street."

Since that is plainly impossible (nothing wrong with your map reading) it's useful to check multiple reports rather than rely on one. The Times does get the street right in Baxter's summing up on the 24th, although he doesn't mention the house number that they were opposite;

"William Marshall, who lived at 64, Berner-street, was standing at his doorway from half-past 11 till midnight. About a quarter to 12 o'clock he saw the deceased talking to a man between Fairclough-street and Boyd-street"

Oh, and happy birthday for yesterday.