Elizabeth Stride's Suicide?

[Simon Wood]

Thank you, Gentlemen,

You've told me all I needed to know.

Regards,

Simon

[mariab]

Simon,
the old canard that the knife that killed Sride was supposedly “blunt“ (further resulting in differentiating Stride as a supposedly “non canonical“) comes precisely through this brief mixup with the Thomas Coram knife at the inquest and the press. The Coram knife was found on Commercial Road the day after the murder, and was most plausibly discarded there for being old and out of use. No evidence links it to the Dutfield's Yard crime.

By the by, there's a Swedish casebook poster who claims he owns the knife in question. Fits nicely with the theory that Stride pulled a Madama Butterfly on her neck. Come to think of it, Madama Buttefly's wounds would have fit better with Eddowes! :-) (With many apologies for the silly pun.)

[Simon Wood]

Hi Maria,

Thank you.

No evidence links it [the Coram knife] to the Dutfield's Yard crime.

Quite.

If Tom is right, it makes you wonder why Dr. Blackwell might have mentioned it.

Regards,

Simon

[mariab]

it makes you wonder why Dr. Blackwell might have mentioned it.

Cris/Hunter just explained it. Part of it is in The Ultimate. Too beat and frozen off to cite it right now, I'm going to bed (about 60°F with no heating here).

[Supe]

Nothing new under the sun, it seems. In Ripper Notes No. 25 (January 2006) there was an article by some guy named Souden entitled "All Too Predictable . . ." in which he wrote in part: Probably the most amazing Ripper book to appear in the next five years will almost certainly be They all Dunnit by Ian Outt. The book's simple thesis is that all five of the canonical victims were members of a suicide pact and suffered self-immolation in serial fashion to draw attention to the plight of . . . well Outt hadn't quite figured out what but rushed to publish anyway, he says, lest someone beat him to the theory.

The entire article, like this snippet, was in jest but you never know. In fact, in the same article Dr. W.G. Grace was suggested as the Ripper, which someone did do a couple years ago.

Don.

[lynn cates]

fuss

Hello Simon.

"If Tom is right, it makes you wonder why Dr. Blackwell might have mentioned it."

I wonder if that was because Drage was making a bit of a fuss over it--as evidence?

Cheers.
LC

[Jenni Shelden]

I expect he mentioned it because of either something he was asked - presumably the coroner could not ignore the knife that Coram found as potential evidence. Or to dismiss the idea.

??????

[Cogidubnus]

Exactly...it'd been raised in public and he was obliged to address it

Dave

[Simon Wood]

Hi All,

Stride Inquest, Tuesday 2nd October 1888—

[Wynne Baxter]: Can you say whether the injuries could have been self-inflicted?

[Dr. Blackwell]: It is impossible that they could have been.

Doctor Blackwell was unequivocal. Suicide was out of the question.

Inquest, Wednesday 3rd October 1888—

Thomas Coram had found a knife. He had handed it to PC Drage, who in turn had handed it to Dr. Phillips on Monday afternoon, the day before Dr. Blackwell pronounced that suicide was an impossibility.

Yet two days later, at the Stride Inquest on Friday 5th October 1888—

[Dr. Blackwell]: "I do not think that I made myself quite clear as to whether it was possible for this to have been a case of suicide."

Why waste his breath? Saucy Jacky had already firmly convinced the press and public that Stride was a Ripper victim.

Regards,

Simon

[Robert]

It seems clear to me. Phillips says that the knife (the Drage knife) had been handed to him and he had examined it. He thought it unlikely to be the weapon. He comments on whether it could have been suicide. Then Blackwell comes in and backs him up about the knife and about the suicide.

Phillips referred to "the knife (singular) produced on the last occasion." Drage (on the last occasion) had said "The knife and handkerchief are those produced." So the Drage knife was produced, and only the Drage knife was produced.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Robert,

I'm pleased it seems clear to you.

On 1st October 1888 the Saucy Jacky postcard announced to the world that Stride was a murder-interruptus "Ripper" victim.

Why then, four days later, should two doctors have been discussing the ins and outs of Stride possibly having committed suicide?

Regards,

Simon

[Robert]

Hi Simon

Because they were asked by the coroner. For that matter, Brown told Langham that Kate's wounds could not have been self-inflicted, and Phillips told Baxter that Annie's wounds could not have been self-inflicted. Llewellyn told Baxter ditto about Polly. I don't think the question came up re Mary. There's a surprise.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Robert,

Thank you.

Given that on 1st October 1888 the historically-accepted notion that Jack the Ripper killed Elizabeth Stride had been decided and universally swallowed, why four days later did Wynne Baxter bother to consider the question of suicide, and in his later summing-up endorse the murder-interruptus scenario?

Regards,

Simon

[Robert]

Hi Simon

Blackwell was asked about suicide on Oct 2nd. I don't see what you're driving at.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Robert,

It's a simple enough proposition.

On Monday 1st October 1888 Saucy Jacky announced to the world that JtR murdered Stride. This "fact" passed into history as one half of a double-event, which today is defended to the hilt by Jacksters™. Try to discount Stride as a member of Jack's C5 and you'll soon find yourself in the midst of a Ripperological shitstorm.

So given "the fact" that Stride was murdered by the world's most notorious "serial killer", why, four days later, would anybody even mildly contemplate the idea that her death might have been the result of suicide?

Regards,

Simon